Chronic Sore Throat Virus

Do you have a chronic sore throat infection that persists for months, or even years?

There is an infectious respiratory virus currently going around which usually causes the following symptoms (you may not have all of them):-

EARLY SYMPTOMS (first few weeks):-

Chronic Sore Throat that never fully heals.
Constant Stuffy / Congested Nose with unusually thick mucus.

ADDITIONAL SYMPTOMS (appear after a few months):-

Depression and low mood.
Generalized Anxiety, which can get VERY extreme.
Powerful Psychological Changes and cognition disruptions.
Loss of Desires and sense of pleasure (anhedonia); loss of libido.
Social Withdrawal – escaping social activities more and more.
Loss of Drive and motivation (athymhormia).
✔ Memory Problems, both short-term and long-term recall.
Unusual Sleepiness and a tendency to fall asleep more.
Chronic Fatigue and loss of energy.
Stomach Ache and Pains, with stomach / bowel rumbling.
Pins and Needles (persistent paresthesia), especially in legs.
Receding Gums and a sudden onset of periodontal disease.

LATER SYMPTOMS (appear at approximately 12 to 18 months):-

Slight Wrinkling of the Skin with unusual, fine-textured wrinkles.
Weak Legs and hips: legs and hip girdle feel loose.
Loose Joints, as if the ligaments are becoming weak.
Subtle Loss of Hearing Acuity in identifying sounds.
Progressive Hearing Loss in elderly, sometimes only in one ear.
Less Frequently: tinnitus; blurred vision; joint pains.

This virus also causes immuno-compromised states, so secondary opportunistic infections will arise more frequently once someone has this chronic sore throat virus. This is a persistent virus, and once caught, it does not seem to resolve, just like the unresolved infections found in chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). It has been observed that this chronic sore throat virus gradually transmits from person-to-person through normal household contact, so once one person has it at home, most other household members will catch this virus within a year or so. This chronic sore throat virus has a very rapid incubation period – often taking less than 8 hours from time you catch the virus, to the point when the first sore throat or gastrointestinal symptoms appear (after which the fever lasts 1-2 days).

The identity of this virus has not yet been determined, so for our purposes here, we are calling it the “chronic sore throat virus“.

A few people have left comments on this site (see below), saying that they have already heard by word of mouth that there is “a nasty virus out there“.

Here is my account of how I caught this chronic sore throat virus, and how it gradually began infecting my whole body.

This infection began with a bad sore throat that I caught several years ago. Being in excellent health at that time, I thought nothing of it. My soft palette at the back of my throat was red and inflamed (this is called herpangina), but there was no pain, and no rash or blisters, so I paid little attention to it. Several weeks later, though, I noticed that my sore throat had not cleared up, and instead, the infection started spreading.MARGIN top, right, bottom, left, Chronic Sore Throat, Constant Stuffy Nose, Anhedonia This was weird, because I am very healthy, HIV negative, with no previous medical problems. Usually I fight off colds and infections very quickly. Yet this sore throat would not go away.

Within a month, this chronic sore throat virus had spread to my nose, which started producing unusually thick and heavy mucus. The nose thus becomes blocked and stuffy, and must be regularly cleared of this thick mucus every hour or so. (This thick nasal mucus congestion is now a permanent symptom). A constant stuffy nose like this is classified as chronic sinusitis, chronic rhinitis, post nasal drip, or rhinorrhea.

Next my lungs became infected, leading to a chest infection and a dry cough. Soon after this, the virus reached my stomach, which started aching a little and produced gas and bubbling sounds, which created some belching (my rumbling, aching stomach is also a permanent – but thankfully intermittent – symptom). The virus also spread to my intestines, where it also produced gas (flatulence – but entirely odorless), bowel rumbles and bowel bloating (now all permanent symptoms).

After another month, this viral infection manifested a distinct new phase: intense mental state changes suddenly appeared. These disturbing psychological symptoms started with a feeling of being very tense, generally anxious and uncomfortable, especially with people (even with friends and family). I became very weak mentally. My strength of mind rapidly disintegrated, and in particular, I became very frail and feeble emotionally. Other people seemed to perturb my mind, so it became quite unpleasant to socialize.

As a result of these psychological changes, I started avoiding social contact more and more, just because I found it a mental strain to be with people, even if they were good friends. Avoiding company made me lonely, yet being with people caused severe tension. This extreme general anxiety made it impossible for me to continue to go to work, so I left my job.

Additionally, just reading or listening to facts and ideas created strong tensions in my mind, as I tried to process the information. So it seemed I could not cope with structured information very well either, even from a book, television or radio. This is more or less psychosis. As a coping strategy, I limited my time with people and information to help reduce this unpleasant mental tension.

Then I quickly became very apathetic. The apathy was towards all sorts of tasks and activities. My normal pro-active ‘can do’ attitude was replaced by a ‘not interested’ feeling – totally out of character. I am normally a motivated, enthusiastic and highly-organized person. However, as this infection and its psychological effects progressed, I began to lose interest in the usual pleasures of life (a condition called anhedonia), including pleasure from sex. There was also a large loss of libido. Furthermore, much of my enthusiasm, drive and motivation just evaporated away (a condition called athymhormia). I also experienced some short-term memory difficulties, and ability to concentrate which caused problems in my day-to-day activities. There was some intelligence loss, particularly in my verbal, spelling and grammatical skills, and I found it a lot harder to recall words, names and other information from my long-term memory. In fact, I found myself becoming less articulate, often mispronouncing words, and forgetting names.

Additionally, my physical body movements started getting a little more clumsy; I seemed to become physically less coordinated.

To sum up, psychologically, I became: anxious, depressed, avoiding social contact, unmotivated, emotionally delicate, confused, forgetful, clumsy, uncoordinated, with a dulled intellect, decreased verbal intelligence, and an impaired memory.

In certain people (but not in my case) this virus caused uncharacteristic and irrational outbursts of aggression in addition to the above.

(As an aside, these symptoms make me wonder whether a virulent virus such as this one may be responsible for the recent worldwide rise in autism and schizophrenia, since its psychological manifestations relate to these conditions. Certainly, a lot of previously normal people that caught this same virus have reported that their “mind is definitely not functioning right”. And when this virus hits a whole family, sometimes, as a result of the mental changes, a parent can display a permanent loss of loving feeling towards their children, and become more emotionally distant from their children; family relations in general turning to a more cold pragmatism. People with this virus often start to avoid social contact, becoming less interested in other people, and being reluctant to socialize. I noticed within my own mind that I lost the pleasure that normally arises from seeing friends and making new friendships; I think this social anhedonia is part of the reason this virus makes social activity less appealing. Another reason is the increased stress and mental tension, so you find you cannot relax in company.)

The next symptoms I experienced were more and more fatigue and sleepiness (hypersomnia). I seemed to fall asleep all the time, even when I was not that tired. Perhaps this virus has affected the area of the brain that controls sleep (the hypothalamus). As this sleepiness and fatigue progressed, I wondered if my condition could be classed as chronic fatigue syndrome (also called myalgic encephalomyelitis). There was also a large loss of appetite.

Four months after first catching this virus, a pins and needles or skin crawling sensation began to appear, first in my legs, but quickly spreading to all my body. There were constant sharp prickling sensations everywhere, which felt like they were located just beneath my skin; these prickling sensations felt like lots of tiny bites, or tiny needle pricks. The severity of this prickling sensation varied from one day to the next. Sometimes the pins and needles would disappear for a week, but always return before long. These type of sensations are called paresthesias, and in my case, this was chronic paresthesia. In addition, a mild sense of numbness in the limbs also appeared.

The next set symptoms to arise were a loss of taste and smell. In the case of the loss of smell (called anosmia): some weeks this would return a bit, but then the next week it would more or less disappear again. (It continued in these up-and-down cycles for two years. However, after several years, my olfactory capabilities have slowly improved, but have still not returned to anywhere near their original form.)

My oral health was then affected: my gums, previously extremely healthy and pink, began receding quite noticeably. Lots of brown plaque was suddenly deposited on my previously white teeth.MARGIN top, right, bottom, left, Receding Gums Periodontal, Anhedonia No matter how much I brush it away, the plaque still comes back. Along with this increased plaque formation, and in spite of frequent tooth brushing, new dental carries suddenly appeared. Previous to this, my oral health was excellent. Therefore, it seems I developed periodontitis within a matter of months. This gum disease may be a manifestation of the immune-weakening effect this virus creates in the body, allowing bacteria to thrive and colonize the oral region. In addition, gum tissue can be directly attacked by tissue-dissolving enzymes created by viruses such as Epstein-Barr (we will come back to this later).

After this, I noticed my vision began to deteriorate. So I had my eyes tested; there was nothing wrong with my eyes or my ophthalmic prescription. My vision seemed “muddy”, rather than optically blurred. For example, looking at say black text on a white page or screen, the letters are focussed, yet are slightly “smudged” and muddied by the white background. I also noticed I could not distinguish subtle changes of shade or color so well. My vision became similar to what you see when you turn up the image contrast on a computer or television: bright yet lacking the shades of detail. (I later discovered that loss of visual contrast sensitivity is often caused by toxins generated by infections.)

About 12 to 18 months after first catching this virus, more strange symptoms manifested: a fine, parchment-like wrinkling of the skin began appearing all over my body. This fine wrinkled skin first appears on the tops of the hands (see picture). The skin could also be described as scaly; it also shows a slight red, blotchy quality beneath its surface, perhaps due to blood coagulation. I am guessing that this wrinkling is the result of collagen or elastin damage under the skin, caused by my viral infection destroying these connective-tissues (further details given later). Although this skin wrinkling is a relatively mild symptom – and not everybody with this virus gets it – this rare phenomenon is mentioned in case it helps anyone to identify my virus. This wrinkling is not normal aging skin (more details later);Wrinkly Skin, Mid Dermal Elastolysis, Anhedonia it is definitely caused by the virus. The closest fit to my skin’s appearance I could find is a disease called Mid-Dermal Elastolysis. This odd skin damage caused by this virus is usually only noticeable in people older than 30 or thereabouts. Even for people 30 to 50 say, this odd parchment-like wrinkling is a slight and subtle symptom. It is most prominent in people older than 50 (and very distinct from normal aging wrinkles). After 2 or 3 years, an additional skin symptom appears: namely the color of the skin on the upper chest area becomes a little reddy/pink, and the skin texture in this area gets quite thick and oily (or waxy) in feel.

Another symptom that manifested at this 12 to 18 month stage was weak legs (and loose hips), and joint looseness. I suspect that the virus is attacking the connective tissue (also called soft tissue) in the major joint ligaments. The ligament looseness is most prominent in the hip girdle and leg joints, and it results in a less than sure walking gait. To a much lesser extend, my shoulder joints and muscles also feel a little loose. But the main area of looseness is my hip girdle. The hip-leg joints feel spongy and lacking in the normal firmness, as if the ligaments have become slack. This hip-leg weakness is constant: it does NOT vary hour to hour, nor day to day. Differential diagnosis: in Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), weak legs are a common symptom, but a variable one. In GAD the legs are fine one minute, and the next they suddenly get weak and can almost give way, due to nervous system fluctuations. But my case is not like GAD: my hip girdle and leg weakness is CONSTANT, not varied. And not that weak.

There is no loss of strength or spasm in the leg muscles either (except occasional cramps in my calf muscles). It is possible that my joint laxity arises from connective tissue damage to the ligaments. In other words, the wrinkly skin symptoms and the loose ligaments and weak legs symptoms are caused by the same mechanism: collagen or elastin connective-tissue destruction caused by the infection. However, the leg weakness may simply be a result of direct nerve or neuromuscular damage caused by the virus.

A slight joint pain sometimes appears (usually just in my knees); but there is no pain, spasm nor stiffness in the muscles themselves.

This virus generally seems to cause immune system weakening, and this results in secondary opportunistic infections often arising, for example: bad toothache, ear infections, eye styes, fungal skin infections, urinary-tract infections, etc (all requiring antibiotics or antimicrobials to clear). These infections never appeared before contracting this virus.

Furthermore, it seem that the virus itself, even years after first catching this virus, will occasional spontaneously cause an organ infection, such as the heart and its endothelial covering (acute pericarditis). And it has also spontaneously caused aseptic meningitis, again, even years after first catching it.

Summary: this virus is a systemic, respiratory, gastrointestinal and neurological virus, which persists chronically in the body, causes joint laxity, chronic fatigue, and seems to have the ability to enter the central nervous system and cause powerful and permanent mental state alterations such as anhedonia, generalized anxiety disorder, and depression; it also seems to weaken the immune system, resulting in an increase of other opportunistic (eg: bacterial and fungal) infections. The virus has a fast incubation period of less than 24 hours, with 8 hours being a typical time from first exposure to onset of initial fever, sore throat and/or vomiting symptoms. This rapid incubation has been observed in more than one person. The initial fever lasts for 1-2 days.

Other Less Common Symptoms: A whole cluster of other symptoms appear during this infection, including progressive loss of hearing: that is, a gradually increasing deafness in older people (probably sensorineural hearing loss); in younger people, a subtle loss of hearing acuity is noticed, meaning that it becomes a little more difficult to identifying environmental sounds, and more difficult to sensing their exact location; increased tinnitus; sense of balance becoming noticeably less acute; dizziness spells (vertigo); hoarse voice due to persistent throat soreness, (or possibly due to connective tissue damage in the larynx); chronic white tongue coating (called geographic tongue or migratory glossitis); red eyes; infection of the urethra; viral headache; eczema / psoriasis; large area of red greasy (almost waxy texture) skin on the chest, just below the neck; increased hair loss (alopecia); cold hands and feet; slow wound healing; weight gain on stomach; kidney pains; joint pains (arthralgias); muscle cramps, especially in the calf muscles; sudden episodes of racing heart (tachycardia) and heart palpitations; acute pericarditis; aseptic (viral) meningitis; reduced attention and concentration; forgetting words, losing some of your vocabulary, suddenly having more difficulty in spelling words and remembering information; frequently selecting incorrect words whilst talking (and strangely, sometimes selecting a word which is incorrect, but from the same category as the right word – for example, saying “pun” when you meant to say “irony” – both are in the same category of literary devices). A very slight shortness of breath (dyspnea) is noticed after several years. A slight numbness of the skin and loss of tactile sensitivity is noticed.

In older people, this virus can precipitate sudden heart attack-type pains, especially at the time when it is first caught, and may have caused actual fatal heart attacks.

Some people report their alcohol tolerance becomes decreased after contracting this virus, in that you become a little more ill when you drink any; in addition, what you do drink has a less relaxing effect than normal. So the hangover is worse, and the soothing effect of alcohol is less. (Alcohol acts on the glutamate and GABA systems in the brain, and this lack of relaxation effect may indicate there is something amiss in these systems, as a result of this virus.)

Furthermore, this virus is not cleared from the body: it spreads throughout the body and central nervous system, remaining as a chronic, persistent and active infection. Although some of its symptoms improve, others symptoms seem to get worse. The mental state changes seem semi-permanent; the weak leg joints and skin wrinkling seem to get a little worse over time. A more comprehensive symptoms summary is given below.

As with many respiratory infections, once one person catches this virus, it will spread to most other members of their household. However, this happens slowly: it takes a year or more before everyone in the household catches this virus. So clearly the long-term contagiousness of this virus is moderately low. Nevertheless, in time, most of the household will have it, and will typically display either a chronically-congested nose with thick, viscous mucus, or a chronic sore throat (or both), plus many of the psychological symptoms such as fatigue, anxiety, and loss of motivation. The symptoms of weak legs and fine skin wrinkles tend to appear some time later. Generally, once an individual catches this bug, they are not quite themselves anymore. However, there is a range of individual responses to this virus: some people become badly depressed and distressed; others are more lucky, and their mental symptoms appear milder. Approximately a third of the people who catch this virus get the chronic sore throat, and about two-thirds get a chronic production of thick nasal mucus. Only say 10 – 20% suffer the more severe mental symptoms and personality change that I experienced; but everyone gets noticeably affected to some degree by depression, anxiety (or aggression), loss of short-term memory, loss of motivation, and loss of interest in life. This really is a misery virus.

None of the 10 or so medical professionals I have seen have yet identified this disease or the pathogen causing it. This infection is probably a virus (rather than a bacterial or fungal disease), because three separate bacterial cultures that my doctors conducted (one of which at a university hospital infectious disease center), showed negative results. However, some readers of this site have pointed out that bacterial microbes such as mycobacteria, actinomycetes and corynebacterium can create similar symptoms. These microbes often cannot be easily detected by a bacterial culture, and are resistant to many antibiotics, so “empirical testing” to see if it is a bacterium by taking antibiotics may not be reliable for these three microbes.

However, the strongest evidence that my pathogen is a virus comes from its incubation period, which I have precise data on: the incubation period is often as fast as 8 to 12 hours. This extremely rapid incubation has been observed on several occasions (when both the exact time of exposure to the pathogen, and the exact time of the appearance of its first symptoms are known). Few bacteria can incubate that fast, and the ones than can are easily detectable in a bacterial culture. Thus analysis of the incubation period suggests we are very likely dealing with a virus.

Nevertheless, since this virus has immuno-suppressive characteristics, it may allow other bacterial or fungal infections to co-exist, which will contribute to the symptoms and overall malaise.

Should anyone have the same symptoms themselves and wish to share their experience and circumstances, please leave a comment below (click here). The purpose of this web site is to find people in a similar situation, and to share information. Leaving your email is optional, and in any case, it will not be revealed.

Note: there are many causes of chronic sore throat; so your chronic sore throat is unlikely to be caused by this virus, unless you have very similar symptoms. So for anyone with a sore throat for a few days: don’t panic, it is probably not this virus.

In the next section, we will see that the virus I caught is probably an enterovirus of some type, such as coxsackievirus B.


CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME (MYALGIC ENCEPHALOMYELITIS)

DIAGNOSIS

In this section, we will look at what viruses might be causing my chronic sore throat and my various other symptoms, and consider whether this virus I have might be new. We will also see that the most likely diagnosis for the disease that I have developed from this virus is chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

Chronic fatigue syndrome is often caused by long-term infections of common viruses such as Coxsackie B virus, Epstein-Barr virus, human herpes 6 virus, parvovirus B19, parainfluenza virus 5, varicella zoster virus, borna disease virus and cytomegalovirus. In fact, it is not generally appreciated that all these common viruses are persistent. That is to say, once you catch such a virus, it remains in your body forever, but usually in an inactive (or mostly inactive) state.

However, in a small percentage of the population, these viruses stay active, and the infection continues indefinitely (but as a low level, hard-to-detect “smoldering” infection). It is in these susceptible people that chronic fatigue syndrome develops after catching such a virus. The full reasons why certain people are more susceptible to certain viruses are not known at this stage, but it is very likely that part of the susceptibility arises from the many microbes already living in a person’s body (if an individual’s existing viral load is already high, and they catch an additional virulent virus, their immune system may no longer be able to cope properly, and CFS develops). Indeed, it has been frequently noted that people who were always a little bit frail in health (presumably due to the existing microbes in their system) are more likely to develop CFS on contracting additional viruses.

Just recently, in fact, the Whittemore Peterson Institute discovered that a new human retrovirus called XMRV is present in 95% of CFS/ME patients. It is early days yet, but this is considered groundbreaking research, as XMRV (which, like its cousin HIV, weakens the immune system) may well explain why the persistent viral infections causing CFS/ME arise.

Genetic factors are also known to be influential in who develops CFS and who does not. Dr Jonathan Kerr has shown that that 88 genes are abnormal in CFS patients, many of these genes often relating to the function of the immune system. This may also help explain why certain minority of people have greater susceptibility to viruses and, on contracting a CFS-causing virus, go on to develop CFS.

Presumably another factor in who develops CFS and who does not from a given virus is whether that virus is able invade the brain and central nervous system (CNS) of the individual, since the CNS is where the significant damage is done in CFS. It may well be that those who do not get CFS from a given virus have a more robust blood-brain-barrier, and/or stronger cerebral immune system.

Around 0.2% to 2% of the population have chronic fatigue syndrome. Many people with severe cases of CFS are bed-bound. Others with less severe chronic fatigue syndrome are able to keep working, but struggle considerably. Even people just mildly afflicted with one or more these viruses will probably perform less than 100%, both mentally and physically.

In fact, it is a disgrace that in the 21st century, such pernicious microbes are in common circulation. More effort must be made to develop vaccines and antiviral drugs that will help eradicate these damaging neurological viruses from the populace. Novel thinking is required to find better means of preventing and curing such infections – new and radical ideas that go way beyond conventional thinking. Not only are many million of people suffering with chronic fatigue syndrome, but there is increasing evidence that these common and contagious neurological viruses are responsible for calamities like nervous breakdowns, burnout at work, anxiety disorders, anorexia, clinical depression, personality problems, as well as numerous classical diseases like multiple sclerosis, diabetes and heart disease. The impact that common viruses in circulation have on the human species is enormous.

Note that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) is also called Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME). It is sometimes written to include both names: CFS/ME. This disease condition is also called Chronic Fatigue and Immune Deficiency Syndrome (CFIDS).

In terms of symptoms, people with chronic fatigue syndrome frequently display: recurrent sore throat, deep fatigue, joint pains, muscle aches, stomach pain, digestive problems (as many CFS viruses live and replicate primarily in the gut), exercise intolerance, memory problems, depression, mood swings, sensitivity to light and sound, blurred vision, sleep disturbances (such as insomnia, oversleeping, sleep reversal – that is, sleeping all day and staying awake at night, restless leg syndrome), swollen lymph nodes, ligament looseness, and this list goes on and on, and nearly all of my own symptoms are on it.

Thus it is clear that diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome generally fits all my symptoms. However, the unusual skin-wrinkling symptoms that people get from this virus are not normally found in CFS, as far as I am aware. Therefore CFS may not be a complete diagnosis, since the virus I have is causing both chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms and skin wrinkles (for more info on the skin wrinkles, see below). Also the extreme anxiety symptoms this virus suddenly causes in certain people are unusual.

But for now, we will stick with the diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome.

THE CENTRES FOR DISEASE CONTROL (CDC) DON’T CARE ABOUT ME

One thing that is important to understand about chronic fatigue syndrome is that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) have for years been deceiving the public – and medical professionals – by propagating the erroneous idea that chronic fatigue syndrome is all in the mind, that chronic fatigue syndrome is only a psychological or psychosomatic condition that you might snap out off. The CDC have consistently failed in their duty to fully investigate outbreaks of CFS, and to make things worse, they spend lots of our money on propaganda and bogus experts in order to deny that CFS is a terrible, and infectious, disease.

The CDC appear to be quite lazy people who, instead of taking responsibility and leading the way in controlling diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome, prefer to cover it up with pseudoscience. As for the sick people, well, no one at the CDC seems to care about ME.

Of course, this misinformation from the CDC has saved insurance companies billions in terms of payouts; and many in the psychiatric profession are equally happy over the CDC’s miscategorisation of CFS: there are plenty of complicit psychiatrists only too pleased to profit from severely ill CFS patients that the CDC have said are only psychologically distressed. However, it is wrong for governments and health insurers to try to avoid payouts to those with CFS/ME: not only is this utterly unfair on patients, but also, governments/insurers should bear the heavy financial burden of this disease – only then will they be motivated enough to channel sufficient funding into finding a cure.

This scandal at the Centers for Disease Control is well described in Hilary Johnson’s book, Osler’s Web. Once you start to examine the CDC, you find that they can sometimes be corruptive force at the heart of our healthcare system, rather than the frontline guardians fighting the battle against disease, as you would have expected.

If the CDC were the police, they would never arrive if you were being attacked and dialed 911; rather they would just try to convince you that the perpetrators are just “all in your mind”. That is obviously unacceptable.

Anyway, this Machiavellian work by the CDC needs to be mentioned, simply because when you go to a doctor with your CFS/ME symptoms, the chances are your doctor will tell you that your symptoms are “all in your mind”, as a result of this doctrine of the CDC. Many doctors will assume that the CDC is a benevolent authority, one that gives true, unbiased, science-based advice. No, in the case of chronic fatigue syndrome, the CDC are better at realpolitik and manipulating the public than they are at doing good science.

So CFS/ME is a bad diagnosis to receive, as it brings you face-to-face with political corruption and government department obfuscation, in addition to the difficult medical circumstances.

And when you have a virus like this, that seems to be causing cognitive, muscular and immune system changes in a lot of people that catch it (even if they do not succumb to full CFS/ME) and thus clearly should be investigated, the CDC’s habit of covering up outbreaks of this type of disease puts us all in a dangerous situation. The CDC’s is mentally retarded approach; a behavior which is not appropriate for a major organ of government.

The CDC: See No Disease, Hear No Disease, Speak No Disease

The CDC: See No Disease, Hear No Disease, Speak No Disease

 

SO WHAT VIRUS MIGHT BE CAUSING ALL MY SYMPTOMS?

We will now look at the characteristic symptoms of a range of viruses, and see if they match my own symptoms. We must use some educated detective work to help identify the culprit virus. This is necessary because blood tests for active viral infections in the body, though helpful, often do not provide definitive conclusions, so there is no foolproof way of getting answers here (though medical science is rapidly advancing in this area). Infectious disease specialists will thus tend to look at the full clinical picture of a patient and, using all information possible, home in on the truth. So we shall try to adopt this method as far as we can.

Unusually, I happen to know exact time I was exposed to this virus; so the fact that its first symptoms appeared 12 hours after this exposure, shows this virus has a very fast incubation period. This rapid incubation period was also noted in two other people who were infected by this virus.

Using this important incubation period information, we can rule out many viruses that have much longer incubation periods. There are several other characteristics of this virus I caught, and using this information as well, we shall try to identify the virus I contracted. The other significant characteristics are:-

My virus can cause a herpangina type sore throat (so it is a respiratory virus), stomach and bowel symptoms (gastrointestinal virus), systemic disease (spreads to different organs in the body), significant mental changes (it is a neurological virus), partial hearing loss and tinnitus, periodontal disease, has immune-suppressive properties, is communicable from person to person via saliva or nasal secretions, and can cause chronic fatigue syndrome.

Given this information, we will see in (the next section) that the virus I caught is most probably the Coxsackie B virus, and possibly the new killer Coxsackie virus that has hit many countries around the world in the last few years.

However, be aware that other viruses can cause approximately similar symptoms. So if you have slightly different symptoms to me, one of the other viruses detailed below may be the culprit in your case.

ENTEROVIRUS (COXSACKIE B VIRUS)

As stated, coxsackievirus B is the most likely virus in my case. Here we explain why:

An initial symptom of my chronic sore throat virus is herpangina (an inflamed red throat at the back of the soft palette). In my case, the herpangina is without any pain, and without blisters, but with a cluster of papules (small raised pimples not producing puss) in the pharynx, which are more-or-less the same pinky color as the throat itself.

Herpangina is usually only caused by certain viruses of the enterovirus genus, namely Coxsackie A viruses, Coxsackie B viruses, and echoviruses (although sometimes also by the Epstein-Barr virus). The enteroviruses, which are part of the larger picornavirus family, are all easily passed from person-to-person via normal household contact, as they are spread by saliva and nasal secretions. This matches the repeatedly-observed way my virus spreads throughout households or workplaces, and to other social contacts.

Out of these various enteroviruses, a virus in the Coxsackie B group fits my symptoms particularly well, as it often causes upper respiratory tract infection, gastrointestinal symptoms, significant neurological disease, persistent long-term infection, and systemic spread throughout the body. There are six species of virus within this coxsackievirus B group; these are called coxsackievirus B1, B2, B3, B4, B5 and B6.

Note that enterovirus herpangina normally has an incubation period of anything from 2 to 10 days, whereas this virus that I caught has a rapid incubation period of less than 24 hours, and I have seen my virus incubate in precisely 8 hours of contraction in one individual, which is a little faster than the typical enterovirus. Thus I speculate that the virus I caught might be a new strain or novel enterovirus which has an unusually rapid incubation period.

In fact, even the Centers for Disease Control note that there may be a new more virulent strain of Coxsackie B1 virus in circulation. This is because there has been an increased level of coxsackievirus B1 infections in the United States, and these Coxsackie B1 infections have sometimes caused severe neonatal disease, as well as five baby deaths in 2007. Normally Coxsackie B infection is not fatal, so this mutated Coxsackie B1 virus is clearly something nasty.

COULD THIS NEWLY-MUTATED KILLER COXSACKIE B1 VIRUS BE THE CAUSE OF MY SYMPTOMS?

Outbreaks of this killer Coxsackie Virus B1 have been seen in countries such as Greece and Israel.

This killer Coxsackie virus B1 seem to cause fatalities by inflammation of the heart, which then precipitates heart attacks. This links up with with new research on heart attacks, which indicates that they are often caused by infections. An infection with coxsackievirus B may also cause severe heart disease.

In terms of the immune system suppression symptoms I have experienced: one species of enterovirus, namely Coxsackie B4 virus, has been shown to attack the natural killer cells of the immune system. This could explain the observed immunodeficiency, in that this coxsackievirus disabling of natural killer cells can allow secondary opportunistic infections to arise more easily in an individual. This also links in with the established fact that problems with natural killer cells are often observed in chronic fatigue syndrome patients.

In terms of my joint laxity and muscle weakness, this is mainly located in my hip girdle and and hip-leg joints (the lower proximal muscles). Note that proximal muscle weakness in general is the characteristic of the diseases of dermatomyositis and polymyositis (these two chronic inflammatory myopathy diseases have been linked to group B coxsackieviruses, as well as parvovirus B19 infections). Polymyositis generally affects the thighs and hips to begin with, but then progresses to all the proximal muscles (proximal muscles = the muscles in the central part of the body, from hips to shoulders).

Interestingly, lower proximal muscle weakness (hind limb weakness) was found in mice with polymyositis caused by the myopathic (muscle damaging) Tucson strain of coxsackievirus B1 (refs: 1, 2). Could this muscle-attacking stain of the coxsackievirus B1 (CVB1T) be the virus I caught? This polymyositis disease is caused by CD8 T cells attacking the muscle tissue. Polymyositis is an autoimmune condition, which is triggered usually by coxsackievirus B, HIV or human T-cell lymphotrophic virus type I (HTLV-I).

Some elderly people with my virus complain of partial hearing loss, increased tinnitus, and mild loss of balance, or even dizzy spells. This little cluster of symptoms is actually a well-known syndrome called Meniere’s disease. Clinical investigation has shown that coxsackie virus B5, influenza B virus and varicella zoster virus are common causes of these type of ear symptoms.

In general, enteroviruses (along with certain species of herpesviruses) are increasing implicated as a major cause of chronic fatigue syndrome, a condition which usually results from a persistent viral infection that is not cleared from the body by the immune system. There is substantial evidence for a persistent enterovirus infection causing CFS, particularly coxsackie B viruses (coxsackie viruses B1 and B4 are often the enterovirus species involved in CFS). Since my symptoms are typical of chronic fatigue syndrome, the finger points to a Coxsackie B virus.

Note on noncytopathic enteroviruses: in chronic, low-level enterovirus infections, viral particles are usually not found in the blood or tissues. Up until recently, there was no explanation for this. It was a paradox. When the standard blood test for enterovirus (the Complement Fixation Test) were given to patients with chronic enterovirus infections, often no evidence for the virus would be found in the blood. Yet an infection was ongoing, as RNA (genetic material) from the enterovirus would be found in the infected body tissues, as would proteins from this virus. This mystery may have finally cleared up in incredible new research by Dr Nora Chapman (et al) which explains what is going on. This research shows that in chronic, low-level enterovirus infections, genetic changes occur to the virus, and a new form of enterovirus then emerges, named the noncytopathic enterovirus. This noncytopathic form of the virus lives within human cells, rarely breaking out of these cells into the blood and tissues. (This special noncytopathic enterovirus is also called: the noncytolytic enterovirus or the terminally-deleted enterovirus.)

The reason noncytopathic enteroviruses do not break out of cells relates to the fact that they only partially replicate: they duplicate their RNA within cells, but do not create capsids (the outer shell of the virus) in which to house this RNA. Therefore no new virus particles are made (that, in normal circumstances, burst out of the cell and wander off to infect more cells). Instead, human cells infected with this noncytopathic virus suffer a build up of viral RNA within them, which it is believed plays havoc by severely altering the functioning of the cell, leading to CFS (and probably many other conditions, such as heart disease).

This noncytopathic enterovirus is an extremely important new discovery, since noncytopathic enteroviruses will quite probably be proven as the casual basis of chronic fatigue syndrome (in the enteroviral subset of CFS, of course). This discovery of a form of enterovirus that lives mainly inside human cells and rarely breaks out explains why, in a persistent, low-level infections of patients, enteroviruses are rarely found in the blood.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ANYONE WANTING TO GET TESTED FOR ENTEROVIRUS, as we now explain:

Taking a enterovirus Complement Fixation Test (CFT) to see if an enterovirus is causing your chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms is NOT the way to go, because a positive or negative enterovirus CFT result says nothing about whether or not you have a long-term enterovirus infection in your body. The enterovirus CFT test cannot detect chronic low-level enterovirus infections that stay inside cells, so this CFT test is a waste of time in the case of chronic fatigue syndrome.

Similarly, studies have found IgG antibodies to coxsackievirus infections in around 55% of the general population (ref: here), and chronic fatigue syndrome patients as a group do not show a significantly higher incidence of coxsackievirus IgG antibodies in their blood than do the general population (even though you might expect them too, since enterovirus is a major cause of chronic fatigue syndrome). So for CFS patients, enterovirus IgG antibody testing is NOT the way to go either. Again, the absence of antibodies in long term, low-level enterovirus infections may be explained by the fact that noncytopathic enteroviruses rarely break out of human cells, so no antibody response is instigated in the body.

The most reliable way of detecting long-term enterovirus infection is through taking a tissue sample (immunohistochemistry via a stomach biopsy), and testing this tissue for the presence of enteroviral VP1 capsid protein. Dr John Chia (a remarkably insightful infectious disease specialist with particular research interests in CFS and enteroviruses) has pioneered this approach and, for the first time, is consistently able to detect enterovirus in the stomach tissues of the subset of CFS patients whose condition is caused by an enterovirus. This is a groundbreaking advancement in the world of CFS. This tissue sample test can detect all types of enterovirus (but cannot determine the specific type enterovirus). Another useful testing technique for finding chronic enterovirus is the micro-neutralization test. More details on these two tests can be found on the Enterovirus Foundation web site.

In terms of cures and treatments, Dr John Chia has employed intravenous double interferon therapy for CFS patients whose condition is caused by enterovirus, and has put their disease into remission. The best results were obtained with the alpha and delta interferon combination. Unfortunately, around half the patients relapse after about a year, so this therapy is not a permanent cure for everybody, but many patients have gone into remission for more than two years. Once in remission from CFS as a result of this interferon therapy, it is often heavy prolonged exercise or excessive heavy workload for many days that precipitates the return of the CFS. So one might assume that if your are in remission, careful avoidance of such prolonged exercise situations, by strategically taking rest periods, may help keep you permanently CFS-free.

Dr Chia has more recently performed trials with his patients that have enterovirus CFS using the inexpensive herb oxymatrine. Oxymatrine is an immune system modulator, that when taken (in tablet form) over many months has shown good improvements for many CFS patients, and has even put some patients into remission from their CFS. Oxymatrine has also been successfully used to cure patients of hepatitis B (this happens after around a year of daily oxymatrine use).

Since interferon therapy: (1) often has unpleasant side effects while you are taking it, (2), is very expensive (around US$5000 month), and (3) since even in those it cures, the CFS often returns a year or two later, so now Dr Chia is mostly using oxymatrine treatment rather than interferon, becasue oxymatrine has: (1) zero side effects, (2) is cheap at US$50 a month or less, and (3) patients who are cured from their CFS will not relapse, as long as they take these oxymatrine tablets daily.

IN SUMMARY: just by my clinical picture, the virus which best fits my symptoms is one of the enteroviruses, probably a coxsackie B virus. Dr John Chia has very generously had a look at this web site, and said he thinks my symptoms are caused by a chronic enterovirus infection, and says that the other viruses (listed below) do not really fit my symptoms.

However these viruses listed below, such as Epstein-Barr virus or HHV-6, can produce approximately similar symptoms to mine, and are a useful reference for other people coming to this site who may have caught a different virus to mine. (In some cases, however, CFS may be caused by more than one virus, as well as bacteria, acting together). Indeed, since viruses such as enterovirus can suppress the immune response, this may in turn allow other latent viruses (and bacteria) in your body to re-activate.

EPSTEIN-BARR VIRUS

Epstein Barr virus (EBV), also called HHV-4, is a member of the herpes family. EBV can also produce a herpangina type of sore throat – which was my very first symptom. Most people know Epstein Barr as the virus that causes mononucleosis. However, EBV has long been suspected in playing a causal role in chronic fatigue syndrome. This herpes virus can also create an immuno-compromised state in an individual. EBV persists for life in infected individuals, even people with perfect immune systems. Epstein-Barr virus (and cytomegalovirus also) is implicated in the oral health condition periodontitis, in which the gums are inflamed and receding. (I fast developed periodontitis from the virus I caught). Periodontitis gum disease is in part due to proliferating oral bacteria; I assume that these bacteria are increasing as a result of a slight immunodeficiency. Periodontitis is also associated with connective tissue dissolving enzymes (which we address later). Incidentally, gingivitis, which is where the gums are inflamed, but not receding, is associated with herpes simplex and varicella-zoster viruses. However, I have the more severe dental condition of periodontitis, not gingivitis.

Epstein-Barr can produce significant neurological symptoms. Thus this virus does fit many of my symptoms. So could I have a virulent strain of Epstein-Barr virus? One difficulty with this hypothesis is that the incubation period of EBV is 4 to 6 weeks, whereas my chronic sore throat virus incubates in less than 24 hours, so it does not fit the observations, unless there is some new Epstein-Barr serotype in circulation that has this very rapid incubation period of less than 24 hours. There are in fact two known strains of Epstein-Barr, type A and type B (also called EBV-1 and EBV-2), but neither of these have this rapid incubation.

Around 90% of the world population have the Epstein-Barr virus in their bodies (in a mostly latent state), but most people do not suffer any extreme symptoms because of this.

In terms of treatments for chronic fatigue syndrome caused by Epstein-Barr, Dr Jose Montoya (at Stanford University) has successfully used the antiviral drugs Valganciclovir and Ganciclovir to treat Epstein-Barr virus infections; these drugs are, however, not without risks.

The drug kutapressin (Nexavir) has been very helpful for patients with chronic fatigue syndrome caused by Epstein-Barr virus. Dr Kenny de Meirleir at Red Labs (located in Belgium and the USA) uses Kutapressin for treating CFS. Dr Derek Enlander (located in New York) also treats CFS with kutapressin.

HUMAN HERPES SIX VIRAL INFECTION

Human herpes 6 virus (HHV-6), especially the more severe A-variant, called HHV-6A, can induce immunodeficiency, neurological symptoms and chronic fatigue syndrome. HHV-6A inhibits immune function by blocking the growth of dendritic cells and interleukin-12 production. Dendritic cells help coordinate the immune response in their vicinity. There has been some speculation that HHV-6A is partly responsible for the immune deficiency found in HIV/AIDS. Dr. Robert Gallo, the co-discoverer of the HIV virus, believes that, as well as HIV, HHV-6A also plays a role in the development of AIDS. Most lab tests for HHV-6 cannot distinguish between the A-variant and the B-variant. One test that can distinguish HHV-6A from HHV-6B is the nested PCR, and is available here: HHV-6A testing . More info on testing: HHV-6A info and HHV-6A info.

The incubation period for HHV-6B is 5 to 15 days (much slower than the 1 day incubation period of the virus I contracted). The incubation period for HHV-6A is not really known, but it may be similar to that of HHV-6B.

In the US, 77 percent of children are infected with HHV-6 variant B by the age of 2 years (ref: 1). In adults, the prevalence of HHV-6B exceeds 90 percent of the population. By comparison, HHV-6 variant A is much rarer: HHV-6A is found in probably less than 3 percent of the US population (see here for relative percentages of the A and B variants of HHV-6). Out of the two, HHV-6A is the one that attacks the brain.

For chronic fatigue syndrome due to HHV-6, treatment success has recently been achieved using the antiviral drug Valganciclovir. The drug kutapressin (Nexavir) has also been helpful for patients with chronic fatigue syndrome caused by the human herpes six virus.

PARVOVIRUS B19

Parvovirus B19 (recently renamed erythrovirus B19) is known to cause a persistent bodily infection as well as connective tissue disease. It has long been suspected as a possible cause of myalgic encephalomyelitis. Parvovirus B19 can also cause carpal tunnel syndrome, rheumatoid arthritis, vasculitis, Raynaud’s disease and anemia. In my case, I think parvovirus may be ruled out on the basis that it has an incubation period of 4 to 14 days, which is too slow: the virus I have shows its symptoms within 24 hours of first contracting it.

By adulthood, 50% of the US population have parvovirus B19 in their system.

For chronic fatigue syndrome caused by parvovirus B19, Intravenous Immunoglobulin (IVIG) treatment has worked in some cases.

PARAINFLUENZA VIRUS 5

Human parainfluenza virus 5 (PIV-5 or HPIV-5), has recently been implicated as a causal factor in chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and multiple sclerosis. Parainfluenza virus 5 (also called Simian Virus 5) targets and destroys the STAT-1 protein. The STAT family of proteins form a vital part of the human immune system, and insufficient STAT-1 creates a diminished immune response, leaving an individual unable to effectively fight viral and bacterial infections. Certainly many CFS patients have STAT-1 absent in their blood, and parainfluenza virus 5 is the strongest viral candidate for explaining this absence.

Could my array of symptoms result from a parainfluenza virus 5 infection? Let us first examine the incubation period. Not much data is yet available for parainfluenza virus 5. However, parainfluenza viruses 1 to 4, which are common cold viruses from the same paramyxovirus family as parainfluenza virus 5, generally have an incubation period in the range of 1 to 7 days. Assuming that parainfluenza virus 5 has a similar incubation period, then this approximately fits with the observed less than 1 day incubation period of my virus. So in this respect, parainfluenza virus 5 could well be the virus that I caught.

Furthermore, parainfluenza viruses 1 and 3 can cause chronic disease, such as chronic rhinitis and persistent loss of smell; these are symptoms I definitely experienced. Perhaps parainfluenza virus 5 might share these characteristics? All parainfluenza viruses are able to enter the brain and the nervous system. Parainfluenza virus 5 has been frequently found in the brain of multiple sclerosis patients, though parainfluenza viruses in general do not seem to be associated with causing significant mental state changes. Nevertheless, if parainfluenza virus 5 is significantly weakening my immune system, secondary infections with other viruses already in my body, such as HHV-6, EBV or cytomegalovirus, may then arise and cause the mental symptoms I experienced. Science is just beginning to examine disease conditions caused by co-infections: that is, where two or more simultaneously-acting viruses are responsible for the pathogenesis of a disease.

Many viruses in the paramyxovirus family can be controlled with neuraminidase inhibitor drugs such as oseltamivir (Tamiflu) and zanamivir (Relenza). Natural neuraminidase inhibitors include kelp and resveratrol. So it may be worth trying out neuraminidase inhibitors to see if they have any effect on a suspected parainfluenza virus 5 infection.

OTHER CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME VIRUSES

Neurovirulent Influenza A virus attacks brain regions such as the substantia nigra (a brain area linked to motivation), the habenular, thalamus, hypothalamus and the brainstem. Influenza A can occasionally remain as a mild persistent long-term infection. There are 10 human serotypes of influenza A, including: avian influenza (bird flu) H5N1, which may cause a human pandemic in the future; and swine influenza H1N1, which is infecting the human population already. Influenza has an incubation period in the range of 1 to 7 days, but is typically 2 to 3 days.

Varicella zoster virus (the virus which causes chickenpox) can cause chronic fatigue syndrome, but probably not if you have already had chickenpox as a child.

Then there is Borna disease virus (BDV) to consider. The Borna virus causes powerful depression and anhedonia, and is associated with chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms; however Borna is a zoonotic virus, and it cannot pass from person-to-person, whereas the virus I caught can.

Cytomegalovirus is another virus that can create chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms. Cytomegalovirus (CMV) can pass from person-to-person via saliva (as well as via urine, semen, cervical secretions, blood, and breast milk). However, cytomegalovirus has a fairly long incubation time, with a 3 week incubation being the shortest it can achieve. Since my virus can have an incubation time of less than 12 hours, we can safely rule out the possibility that my virus is the cytomegalovirus. Up to 20% of US children are infected with cytomegalovirus before they reach puberty, and more than 50% of the US adult population have cytomegalovirus in their bodies. Note that cytomegalovirus is often an opportunistic virus: if you have cytomegalovirus lurking your system already, although the immune system keeps it in check normally, the immune-suppressing actions of other viruses or bacteria may allow any latent cytomegalovirus in your body to re-activate and start causing trouble.

AN EMERGING NEW RESPIRATORY VIRUS?

In the last ten years, many new human respiratory viruses have been discovered. These include: human metapneumovirus virus (hMPV), mimivirus, parvovirus 4 and 5 (PARV4, PARV5), human bocavirus (HBoV), WU virus and KI virus (both polyomaviruses), Torque teno virus (TT virus), melaka virus, mapuera virus, menangle virus, New Haven coronavirus, coronavirus NL63, coronavirus HKU1, Saffold cardiovirus (SAFV), Dekavirus (these last two are new human picornaviridae), and Ljungan virus. The clinical signs, symptoms and pathogenesis for most of these are not fully known at this stage. Could my virus be an emerging infectious disease within this list, or an as yet unknown and unnamed emerging viral pathogen?

BACTERIAL CAUSES OF CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME

Bacteria such as Chlamydia pneumoniae and Coxiella burnetii (which causes Q fever) are responsible for some cases of chronic fatigue syndrome. These can be treated with antibiotics. The incubation period of Chlamydia pneumoniae is around 3 to 4 weeks; the incubation period of Coxiella burnetii 2 to 3 weeks; both of these are to slow to be my pathogen, which has a much faster incubation period of around 24 hours.

READING MORE

For more information on the viruses introduced above, see here. Should any reader have any suggestions regarding the identity of this infectious pathogen, or have the same symptoms themselves and wish to share their experience, please leave a comment below.

The next section is a little more complex, and so you may wish to skip straight to reading the comments. Alternatively, you may be interested in jumping to the treatments page.


FURTHER OBSERVATIONS AND HYPOTHESES

CONNECTIVE-TISSUE DISSOLVING ENZYMES

This section examines the strange symptoms of fine skin wrinkles and loose ligaments that my virus causes in many people (especially those over 35).

Skin wrinkles and loose ligaments are found in the following known skin diseases: mid-dermal elastolysis, wrinkly skin syndrome, acquired cutis laxa, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, joint hypermobility syndrome and pseudoxanthoma elasticum. These skin diseases are also frequently associated with psychological changes, cognitive decline and dementia. Out of the above skin disorders, the closest fit to my skin’s appearance is the skin disease mid-dermal elastolysis, which is characterized by fine wrinkling of skin, as well as mild blotchy redness on the skin. Mid-dermal elastolysis is due to loss of the elastic fibers in the mid-dermal tissue.

My hypothesis is that my skin’s appearance is also due to loss of elastic fibers.

And I believe that my viral infection may be generating connective-tissue degrading enzymes (also called extracellular matrix-degrading enzymes) that are the direct cause of the loss of elastic fibers in my skin and ligaments. It is the loss of elastin which then leads to this strange finely-wrinkled skin and loose, weak ligaments (weak legs and hip girdle).

Connective-tissue degrading enzymes are naturally generated in the body, and also generated by various microbes. These enzymes are designed to dissolve the body’s connective tissue. Connective tissues include elastin, collagen and gelatin, and are found in the tendons, ligaments, the skin, and other places.

Microbes such as viruses, bacteria and parasites often generate connective tissue-degrading enzymes in order to dissolve the surrounding body tissue, allowing these microbes to better spread themselves throughout the body. (In this context, these connective-tissue dissolving enzymes are called virulence factors. Incidentally, these connective tissue-degrading virulence factors generated by my infection may help explain why the incubation period of this virus is unusually fast.)

In addition, the human immune system itself can secrete these connective tissue-destroying enzymes when fighting pathogens (this presents no problem in the short term, but a chronic infection can produce constant high levels of these enzymes, which can cause damage to the body).

At this time, it is not clear whether the source of the connective tissue-destroying enzymes that are damaging my skin and ligaments is coming from the action of the virus, or from the response of the immune system (or even from another source). However, I am certain that it is the constant high level of these connective tissue-degrading enzymes is responsible for creating a wrinkled skin appearance and excessive joint laxity.

There are in fact many types of connective tissue-destroying enzyme. However, as we shall see, the two most likely suspects for causing the damage are: neutrophil elastase, and MMP-9 (also called gelatinase B).

Other connective tissue-destroying enzymes include the matrix metalloproteinase (MMP) family. The matrix metalloproteinases are named MMP-1, MMP-2, MMP-3, etc. Each such matrix metalloproteinase can dissolve different types of connective tissue. For example, MMP-1 can dissolve collagen. MMP-1 is found at high levels in smokers, and is thought to be responsible for the collagen breakdown that creates the particular type of wrinkles often seen on long-term smokers’ faces. One very common extracellular matrix-degrading enzyme is neutrophil elastase (also called leukocyte elastase), which dissolves elastin, and hyaluronidase

Elastin is a very important structural component of skin, ligaments and tendons. It usually exists in the form of elastic fibers, which provides taught strength and flexibility. The enzymes capable of destroying elastin are: neutrophil elastase, MMP-2 (gelatinase A), MMP-9 (gelatinase B) and MMP-12 (macrophage elastase, or metalloelastase).

However, studies have shown that neutrophil elastase is often abnormally high in chronic fatigue syndrome patients, so this must be a prime suspect. Chronic fatigue syndrome patients frequently suffer excessive joint laxity, and this may tie up with their excess neutrophil elastase levels thinning the elastin in the tendons or ligaments. Note that neutrophil elastase has also been implicated in the initial destruction of the periodontal ligament, which helps instigate periodontal disease (in addition to the gum-damaging action of oral bacteria, which have proliferated probably as a result of the immune-suppressive effects of my virus). This may provided (in part) an explanation of the periodontal problems I have experienced as a result of my viral infection. Other enzymes, however, are also implicated in periodontal disease, notably MMP-9.

As mentioned above, the skin condition that most closely resembles the wrinkles I have is called mid-dermal elastolysis (MDE). In mid-dermal elastolysis, these is a loss of elastin in the skin, caused by high levels of the elastin dissolving enzyme MMP-9 in these patients.

Interestingly, in the Mid-dermal elastolysis disease, fibroblast-like cells have been observed that express high levels of MMP-9. Now, it just so happens that coxsackievirus B has an affinity for infecting fibroblast cells. So, is it possible that in my case, coxsackievirus-damaged fibroblasts may be pumping out lots of MMP-9 and/or elastase, thereby leading to the observed damage to the skin’s elastin / collagen? Or that these infected fibroblasts may lower their production of elastin? Either way, the skin’s elastin content will decline, leading to the the very fine wrinkles texture.

Memory Problems and Dementia

Another feature of my infection is mental degradation, with my working memory rapidly disintegrating. Now, apart from the virus directly infecting and destroying brain cells, note also that some matrix metalloproteinases, namely MMP-1, MMP-2, MMP-9, are actually neurotoxic. This is possibly another way that an infection can damage the central nervous system, via the neurotoxic effects of its MMP (and possibly other) metabolites. In fact, these neurotoxic MMPs have been implicated as causal factors in many types of dementia. Interestingly, dementia is a symptom of some skin disorders. For example, in cutis laxa (a disease similar to wrinkly skin syndrome), in which there is a measured tissue increase in MMP-1 and MMP-9 levels in the body, dementia is common.

HIV/AIDS-related dementia may also be caused by matrix-metalloproteinases: in HIV-infected individuals, high levels of MMP-1 and MMP-9 are measured. In systemic lupus erythematosus, high levels of MMP-9 get induced by the pro-inflammatory cytokines that abound in lupus, and this MMP-9 is thought responsible for the brain damage often found in lupus.

MMPs are implicated as causal factors of brain damage in a wide set of diseases, such as stroke, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, vascular dementia (multi-infarct dementia), and many others.

MMP Other Name Neuro-
toxic
CFS Cutis
laxa
MDE Smoker HIV
MMP-1 Interstitial collagenase Yes - High - High High
MMP-2 Gelatinase-A Yes - - - - -
MMP-9 Gelatinase-B Yes - High High - High
- Neutrophil elastase - High - High - -

Studies in periodontal gum disease (which my virus has rapidly initiated) suggest that the gum tissue is eaten away by the action of matrix metalloproteinases. However, different studies have pointed at different culprit MMPs, including: MMP-2, MMP-3, MMP-8, MMP-9, MMP-13, and neutrophil elastase. I do not know which MMPs are responsible for my receding gum line. There are various drugs and substances which are inhibitors of matrix metalloproteinases; these substances can been taken to help prevent MMPs eating away the gums. For example, low dose doxycycline (sold as “Periostat”) can help stop MMP-8 and MMP-9.

Interestingly, MMP-9 is actually expressed by neurons themselves in the hippocampus of the adult brain. Here in the hippocampus, MMP-9 seems to be involved in the process of storing memories in the brain, dissolving and remodeling the synaptic connections between neurons. This use of MMP-9 by the brain is, of course, performed delicately, deploying MMP-9 only at the appropriate locality, to make precise and specific changes to the brain’s synaptic connections, in order to lay down memory information. So perhaps one may speculate that excessive quantities of MMP-9 gushing around the brain will indiscriminately dissolve synapses, which will obviously cause havoc to the brain’s memory processes.

This is why I suggest the memory and dementia problems I have experienced from my viral infection could be due (at least in part) to an excessive level of MMP-9 gushing around in the body, this abnormally high level of MMP-9 interfering with the delicate use of MMP-9 in the brain. This flood of MMP-9 may be indiscriminately dissolving synapses. This is just a hypotheses at this stage.

This MMP-9 hypothesis can explain a lot of observations: all the skin symptoms, memory problems, dementia, periodontal receding gum problems might all be primarily caused by one factor: high levels of circulating MMP-9.

The question is, what can be done about this? This is not easy, since there is some evidence that MMP-9 plays a vital role in the fight against infection, and therefore taking MMP-9 inhibitors may make things worse (this is at least the case with the coxsackie B3 virus cardiac myopathy: studies have have shown that using MMP-9 inhibitors here actually made the infection worse). Not only that, but MMP-9 inhibitors may possibly alter the normal expression of MMP-9 required by the brain during the memory recording process (presumably, depending on whether they can penetrate though the blood-brain barrier). So I guess proper understanding of the roles and processes of MMP-9 is required.

However, this general approach of trying to reduce MMP-9 and/or neutrophil elastase levels could be an good strategy for preventing central nervous system damage that results from toxic metabolites created by this chronic virus infection.

Notes: Epstein Barr virus infection is associated with increased expression of MMP-9. Herpes simplex infection can also generate increased MMP-9. High levels of MMP-9 are found in coxsackie B3 myocarditis, and coxsackievirus B4-induced pancreatitis. In coxsackievirus pancreatitis, the MMP-9 is secreted by macrophages and neutrophils (Ref: 1).


SUMMARY CHARACTERISTICS OF THIS VIRUS

CLINICAL SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS

The clinical manifestations listed below have been collated by my personal observation of myself and at least 15 other people who also caught this same chronic sore throat virus. This set of people observed includes all ages, and both sexes.

✔ Virus Symptoms Overview

This virus is an respiratory (upper respiratory more than lower), gastrointestinal and neurological virus, which spreads systemically throughout the body, and persists chronically, causing weak legs, fine-textured skin wrinkles across the body, and all the characteristic symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome. When this virus enters the central nervous system it causes powerful and permanent mental state alterations such as anhedonia, generalized anxiety disorder, depression, memory and word-recall problems. This virus also seems to weaken the immune system, resulting in an increase of other opportunistic (bacterial, fungal and other viral) infections.

✔ Mode of Transmission

The way the virus enters the body.

Transmitted person-to-person, probably via saliva and/or nasal secretions. The virus will transmit to most members of a household or office within a year or two, if one member is infected, particularly if that person suffers a persistent sore throat and/or persistent nasal mucus. The fact that transmission is not that fast (compared to a cold for example) suggests that the viral particles do not survive long in the environment. It has been noted that virus transmission usually occurs via sharing food or drinks on the same table, or by intimate contact such as kissing. There may also be fecal-oral transmission, given that this virus replicates in the intestines, but I suspect its main route of human-to-human transmission of this virus is through respiratory secretions.

✔ Incubation Period

The time between catching the virus and the arrival of its first symptoms.

The incubation period is VERY fast: can be as fast as 8 hours (observed using a reliable methodology). This very rapid incubation should be a good clue to the identity of this virus.

✔ Prodrome

The nature of initial symptoms at the beginning of the infection.

This viral infection usually starts in one of four ways:-

(1) A sore throat initially located at the back of the soft palette, just on one side (unilateral), on the palatoglossal arch (towards where this arch meets the base of the tongue, rather than at the uvula end of this arch). The infection also develops symmetrically in the very back of the throat (pharynx), and to a lesser degree in the upper esophagus. Inspection of the pharynx shows lots of pink papules (small raised pimples not producing puss), but these raised papules (which are slightly elongated rather than round, say 2mm by 1mm in size), are barely discernible, since they are the same color as the surrounding skin. There are no papules or any other types of spot on the soft palette itself, just red inflammation. There is a mild dry cough with little sputum. The throat is sore, but with no pain, and very little fever. This throat infection runs for many months before it begins to subside. However it never fully disappears, and usually remains as a chronic sore throat and/or with constant nasal mucus production (although the sore throat becomes a more subdued after a few years).

(2) Alternatively, the infection can first begin as a gastric upset, with vomiting and diarrhea (in other words, it begins as a viral gastroenteritis or “stomach flu”). In the case of this stomach upset type of prodrome, there is a fever, which lasts for one or two days (unfortunately the fever temperature has not been measured; but it is not unduly high). There are NO signs of skin rash. The only skin change apparent at this incubation stage is a slight red flushing, presumed due just to the patient’s temperature.

(3) Sometimes the infection starts with a cluster of lesions and scabs surrounding the facial lips, these lesions looking like large cold sores. In this case, there is also a significant swelling of the lymph nodes in the lower jaw and neck, these swollen lymph nodes easing off after a week or two, as the crusted lesions clear up (these lesions may just be a flare up of pre-existing herpes simplex, as a result of the immunocompromising actions of the chronic sore throat virus). No other prodrome sequences have been noted. NOTE: when the infection begins as a sore throat, a (milder) gastric upset can appear months later. Similarly, when the infection begins as a gastric upset, sore throat can appear weeks later. The virus does not stay localized, it usually spreads systemically.

(4) Very occasionally, this infection can start with just with a viral headache (which can be very intense and can last for two or three days), but no other symptoms (at least initially) other than generally feeling under the weather.

✔ Period of Communicability

The time period during which an infected person may infect others.

The period of communicability is the time period that an infected person is able to transmit their virus to others. For example: in the case of the common cold virus (rhinovirus), this period is the first few days of infection, after which, the body is in recovery from the fever, and the cold virus can no longer be transmitted to others. However, in the case of this chronic sore throat virus, the period of communicability lasts indefinitely (or at least many years). People with this virus who have a chronic sore throat or constant nasal secretions (which are common symptoms) are able to transmit this virus years after their initial infection prodrome, probably indefinitely, via the constant source of viral particles shed from the saliva in the mouth and/or from the persistent nasal mucus discharge. People who catch this virus thus often become long-term carriers, able to infect others.

The persistent nasal discharge is very characteristic: the constant stuffy nose contains thick, viscous, congested mucus build up. Blowing your nose with a tissue to clear this mucus build-up is necessary every hour or so, and requires a very strong and long blow of the nose to clear out the viscous thick mucus. Once begun, this thick nasal mucus persist permanently, even after many years, with no sign of remission. Exactly the same is true for the sore throat, which persists permanently, but often becoming more subdued in time. NOTE: some people can have the chronic runny nose without the chronic sore throat, and vice versa. Others have both, and other people have neither. Sometimes there is a recurrent sore throat, where the throat will clear up for a day, but then quickly return. These constant nasopharyngeal symptoms are characteristic, and make the period of communicability indefinitely long. Some approximate statistics: about 70% of people with this virus display a chronic stuffy / runny nose, and about 30% get the chronic sore throat.

✔ Contagiousness

How easily the virus passes to other people (also called transmission rate).

Even though this virus has an indefinitely long period of communicability (as a result of its chronic respiratory infection) and, even though its incubation period is extremely rapid, by contrast, this virus is not highly contagious. Its person-to-person transmission rate is in fact relatively low. This can be easily deduced from the observation that during normal household contact, this virus can take a year or two to pass to all members of the household.

One way this virus can pass to a person outside the household is when meeting an acquaintance for say lunch or dinner, and having lots of animated conversation whilst eating on the same table. I have noticed that this tends to pass on the virus. This is almost certainly from oral ejections of tiny globules of spittle that naturally happens during laughing and talking. This spittle may land on the table on other person’s food or drink, and then get eaten. Intimate or deep kissing is another way this virus is quite easily transmitted, if the infected person has the chronic nasopharyngeal infection.

NOTE: normally when we refer to the contagiousness of an infection, this is assumed to be during the fever period, when the infection is at its maximum. After this fever period (in self-limiting viral infections) the virus is close to being cleared from the body, and is thus no longer contagious. However, this present virus is not self-limiting, so after its initial fever period, the infection subsides, but the virus is not cleared from the body, and it continues persistently at a lower level of fierceness. It has been repeatedly observed that this “chronic sore throat virus” virus can be transmitted to other people long after the fever period has ended: that is to say, this virus remains mildly but permanently contagious during the low-level infection stage (which lasts indefinitely). So when we classify this virus as only moderately contagious, we refer not to contagiousness during its initial fever period, but its contagiousness during its persistent low level infection stage, in the months and years after the initial fever. Quite probably, the level of contagiousness during the initial fever is much higher.

Thus in summary: this virus has a fever period contagiousness that is probably quite high; and a long term contagiousness that is only moderate.

✔ Mental State Changes

About 2 months after the initial prodrome, powerful mental state changes begin (depression, fatigue, apathy, loss of motivation, anhedonia, dysthymia, athymhormia, social withdrawal, a sense of sleepiness, mild dementia, some memory problems, loss of organizational capabilities). In some people, uncharacteristic outbursts of aggression appear. The severity of the mental state changes varies considerably from person to person: some people are badly affected, other just minimally affected. What is clear is that the mental symptoms, whilst they do improve a little, linger permanently.

✔ Pins and Needles

About 4 months after the initial prodrome, a “pins and needles” sensation (paresthesia) appears in some people. This tends to be more in the legs, but will often manifest throughout the whole body. Some people say these pins and needles sensations are located just under the skin; other people say that they are in their muscles.

✔ Receding Gums: Periodontal Disease

Also at 4 months, receding gums and a rapid sudden onset of periodontal disease arises in many people. Dental plaque formation and deposition significantly increases. There may even be new dental carries suddenly appearing, even for people with excellent oral hygiene habits.

✔ Skin Wrinkling

About 12 to 18 months after the initial prodrome, the first signs of fine skin wrinkling are noticed. This closely-spaced wrinkling has a texture reminiscent of parchment paper. These premature skin aging wrinkles start to appear at first on the top of the hands, but the whole body is soon involved. The wrinkled skin produced by this virus looks different in appearance to the look of normal skin aging. For one thing, the viral wrinkles are much finer than normal wrinkles, with this unusual parchment-like appearance. They are not localized on the body, but rather form a consistent uniform fine texture across the body. Also, as we know, normal skin aging happens quite slowly – in normal aging, significant changes in skin appearance are noticeable as the decades go by, not as a year goes by. By contrast, the aging skin process that arises from catching this virus manifests more rapidly, with significant changes noticeable within a year or two. The degree of wrinkling this virus causes varies from person to person. Older people (55+) have a greater, and a more rapid increase in body wrinkles, and exhibit slightly deeper wrinkle furrows. Younger people (30 to 55 years) have slightly more shallow furrows. In both cases, however, the wrinkles have this characteristic very fine texture, with parchment-like appearance that are distinct from normal aging wrinkles. People under about 30 or so will tend not to show any of these wrinkles, presumably because their younger skin is more robust in countering the skin-damaging effect of this virus.

✔ Weak Legs and Hip Joint Laxity

Also at 12 to 18 months, the first signs of hip joint weakness and looseness appear. The joint laxity and muscle weakness is primarily located in the all the proximal muscles (the muscles in, or closest to, the core of the body, such as hip girdle, back, abdomen, chest and shoulders), but the weakness is far more noticeable in the lower proximal muscles (the hip girdle and hip-leg joints) rather than any other proximal muscle. Proximal muscle weakness in general is the characteristic of the diseases of dermatomyositis and polymyositis (these two chronic inflammatory myopathy diseases have been linked to coxsackievirus B / enterovirus, and parvovirus B19 infections). Interestingly, lower proximal muscle weakness (hind limb weakness) in particular was found in mice with polymyositis caused by the Tucson strain of coxsackievirus B1 (Refs: 1, 2).

 
 

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656 Responses to “Chronic Sore Throat Virus”

  1. paul Says:

    forgot to mention dry sinuses.. been living a year with that a year it becomes normal…almost.

  2. Unbelievable Says:

    PAUL try doing a heavy metals test, that’s next on my list.
    NEIL W. Are u sure the spots on the tongue aren’t HPV related? White spots are indicative of HPV……. Although they are expensive there are antivirals for HPV…..

  3. ChrisL Says:

    For those of you with periodontal disease, I have a home remedy that has been treating me pretty well the past couple years. Mix a small amount of baking soda with hydrogen peroxide to create the consistency of cake frosting. I find a shot glass and the handle end of a spoon work very well for mixing. Spread the “frosting” on the outside of your gumline and work the mixture into the spaces between your teeth with a stimudent. Do a small area at a time and start with the lower teeth first. When finished, let sit for a couple minutes and rinse your mouth out with warm slightly salty water. I think this does a great job at controlling bacteria growth around the gum line. You want to do this every other night or every night depending on the severity of your gum situation. I hope this is helpful!

  4. Unbelievable Says:

    Thanks for the tip Chris,
    does standard hydrogen peroxide work 3%(with the stabiliser) or do I have to buy the food grade 35% and dilute it?

  5. ChrisL Says:

    Use the 3 percent. The food grade is too acidic and will damage your teeth!

  6. NeilW Says:

    Hi again,

    To answer your question Hip – YES I had teeth fall out at the back of my teeth due to the receding gum line and this is gradually working it’s way down the remaining upper gum – it’s at the front now and noticeable.

    To answer your question Unbelievable – I have had all the tests and every STD has been crossed off the list as a cause at all the STD Docs say I’m clean – whether this is trully the case remains to be seen. But again it doesn’t fit in with the life history either. I have spots on the roof of my mouth – alike those Hip descibed in his symptom list (amongst others) and the spots I had on my whitish tongue was not thrush or leukopenia like – but the same appearance as pernicious anemia (a whitish tongue with tiny spots – not white spots on my tongue) this I’m told relates to my low b12. I haven’t had the white tongue for a while now. Just all the other ongoing symptoms I’ve posted on this forum/blog.

    The skin crawling (pn), muscle twitching, receding gums and blood shot eyes (which according to some sites can be a collagen disorder) and dodgy ligaments are with me daily and have never gone away.

    I hope that from visiting this site that 1 day we can all say Hip Hip Hooray and all be further forward in what’s causing this.

    As Paul says, we all know something is wrong with us but can’t seem to get diagnosis. It’s either a virus that manifests and plays with the nervous system etc or a bacterium that is hard to detect or find within fbc/cbc’s

    I appreciate all the comms.

    NeilW

  7. NeilW Says:

    Chris,

    As for your sinuses the problem I had was that initially my sinuses were very, very dry and then the throat became heavily congested. I’d like to call this the initial infection stage and then everything else started to happen.

    Initially I was offered counselling but know any anxiety is caused by whatever I have and not an overworked stressed mind. At the time of infection the manner in which my body was reacting and behaving pressed the alarm bell that something was wrong – and still is.

    We’ve both got something no worry about that.

    NeilW

  8. Paul Says:

    Neil ,
    you said your tongue has cleared as far as the white coating goes. Is you mouth still dry or was that just a symptom at the start of all this?

  9. Paul Says:

    To hip,

    In your studies have you found any association with this virus and a swollen tongue?

    REPLY: I have found nothing specific, but swollen tongue can simply be due to the inflammation of the ongoing geographic tongue infection. Geographic tongue viral causes include: herpes simplex virus, varicella zoster virus, cytomegalovirus and enterovirus. Swollen tongue can also appear in mononucleosis (Epstein Barr virus) and hives. – Hip

  10. NeilW Says:

    Hi Paul,

    The whitish (geographic) tongue, with the spots at the front of the tongue was an initial symptom. However it has sometimes shown itself since, however initially stayed with me for at least a year and then disappeared. It was also swollen but not to a hugely noticeable degree.

    The dryness was also an initial symptom. In fact, when I first got hit with this infection I have. My mouth was dry, no saliva production, no nasal production – everything was dry and then Kapow the sore throat and heavy nasal congestion visible from the back of the mouth – it was constant and then after 6months the nasal/mucous production became normal. Now all I have is what I mentioned in my last few postings.

    Another strange feeling I get is feeling almost dizzy like, an almost out of body experience and dull aching pains below the rib cage – these are not all the time but occassional.

    This is truly, truly strange.

    NeilW

  11. Phooph Says:

    On gum disease – I was using a mouthwash I bought in a health food store that was costing over $5 a pint. I knew it contained hydrogen peroxide and tasted also like original Listerine. Looking up the ingredients in both the mouthwash and the Listerine bottle I realized they were the same so I make my own. Two parts 3% peroxide and one part Listerine produces the same results.

    I also use an ionizing dental irrigator (waterpik type device) you can make your own by attaching a magnet to the hose of the irrigator. There are magnets available designed to be put on pipes and lines of all sizes. You could look for one of those online or get those donut magnets and break a couple in half and reattach with the hose in the middle. I add some of the mouthwash to the water. So far I am having no gum disease although I get the coated tongue and crud on my teeth during the day when I am eating and feeding the microbes in my mouth.

  12. Paul Says:

    seen the ID doctor today. I could have rather stayed home.
    All that came of it was, he looked at my labs, i ran down my concerns. All he could tell me is that i show no real signs of infection and no testing is in order. even after the host of symptoms i gave him like feeling like crap, my swollen white tongue, intestinal grumbling. he actually used my labs and almost ignored my symptoms to come to his diagnosis of IBS which is crap in itself.

    REPLY: An ID specialist will usually just look at the common, treatable conditions. They often do not check for viral infections. I got my viral blood tests in the end from another private doctor. – Hip

  13. NeilW Says:

    Hi Paul,

    Sorry to hear of your outcome, but I am not surprised.

    I had the same excitement when being referred to a ID Consultant after being constantly being told there was nothing wrong with me other than that I was anxious. However after all the normal tests etc he acknowledged that something was wrong and something was causing it but had no idea. But he did kindly tell me that I wasn’t suffering from Cancer or HIV – but part of me knew that anyhow.

    So I went off at my own expense and got further tests done that showed the CRP elevated and other inflammation markers etc but again NO diagnosis but MS and Diabetes were considered but then struck off the list as I wasn’t suffering with those conditions but would be considered likely given some of the symptoms.

    So what do we do other than suffer..both the physical and mental symptoms we all have.. and try to deal with them and find a cause.. It’s madness…

    Hang in there Paul..

    NeilW

  14. Paul Says:

    Thanks Neil

    My saccharomyces cerevisiae i know is high that’s a marker for inflammatory bowel. But what is causing that?
    So you had tests done on your own? Where were the results sent?
    Tomorrow Im going to see my doc and ask him to test for mycobacteria. Have you Neil, or anyone else ever been tested for that?

  15. Paul Says:

    To anyone who will listen, You can red this too Neil.
    this is my theory as of now.

    I have high immune complexes and saccharomyces cerevisiaei know that.

    An immune complex is the combination of an epitope with an antibody directed against that epitope. The bound antigen and the binding antibody are referred to as a single entity in this state. normally cleared from your body by your liver and spleen. when they are not they can be deposited in some organs where they cause inflammation. That’s why people here experience kidney sensations. They’re kidneys are inflamed.
    I believe this is the cause of my symptoms, my tongue is swolllen. The tongue is an internal organ part of the intestines. Only difference is that we can see it when we open our mouths. So inflamed tongue = inflamed intestines = lost appetite, gas, bloating, pain, poor nutrition and so on.
    I believe my symptoms are causes not by a virus but a bacteria. I don’t recall having a fever. My family shows no sign of anything and this is after a year by now, if what hip says is true, i thought at least my wife would show something, although she has complained about pealing lips for the last 3 months if that means anything. I believe a virus would have spread by now.
    That’s what I think and why i’m asking for the test for mycobacteria

    God bless

    REPLY: I think you may be right in your case. Not everyone on this site will have the same virus, and in many cases it may be a bacterium or fungus that is the main cause of their symptoms.

    Have a look at Mycobacterium paratuberculosis, which comes from milk and is linked to inflammatory bowel disease / Crohn’s disease, which you may be just at the border of. If mycobacterium paratuberculosis is in your gut, it prevents your immune system from killing another bacteria called E. Coli (which are often present in high numbers in Crohn’s). This is because mycobacterium paratuberculosis creates a sugar called mannose, which prevents your macrophages from killing E. coli. Some people actually take mannose (it is found in cranberrys) to eliminate bladder / urinary tract infections. But in your case, you may want to stay clear of cranberrys and mannose.

    Note that the viruses CMV, EBV and HHV-6 are linked to IBD. You might want to get tested to see if you have high titers of these viruses.

    Once you have one type of infection, it often encourages others.

    Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the latin name for baker’s yeast. If you have an overload of this, try a mostly sugar-free diet, which over the months will slowly starve to death the yeast. – Hip

  16. Unbelievable Says:

    Viruses are not neccesarily airborne, many diffent types of pathogens can be the cause of our symptoms, the clue like hip said is in the onset.

  17. Hip Says:

    I just took the Neurotoxic Metabolite Test for hydrogen sulfide. This home test is cheap to buy at the moment. And it is easy to use. Note that this test is at the cutting-edge research stage, so your doctor will probably not know about it.

    The test showed a very strong positive for hydrogen sulfide in my body. So clearly H2S could be contributing to many of my symptoms.

    According to Dr. De Meirleir, the main gut bacteria that can create H2S are: streptococcus, enterococcus and prevotella.

    Since my virus has clearly caused the rapid proliferation of oral bacteria (plaque on my teeth) due to its immune-suppressive action, imagine how much more proliferation of bacteria this immune-suppressing virus causes within the gut (the gut is a major home of this virus).

    This virus may thus facilitate the overgrowth of H2S-producing bacteria.

  18. jackie Says:

    Hi guys,

    Can I ask you all a very off the cuff question please, has anyone noticed if they are being bugged by bugs more often now we are sick.? Having worse reaction than we used to,,,,house flies aggravating more than usual and things like not even knowing you have been bitten but noticing a bad reaction to bites and stings.

    It may be irrelevant but I have noticed a big difference and it has become an issue. Please can you let me know.

    Regards Jac

    REPLY: I myself have not had this problem directly, but I find that small wounds heal more slowly. And because of the immune suppressive action of this virus, small wounds often stay septic and inflamed for longer. It could be that insect bites introduce some bacteria, and so cause this problem.

    Another possible explanation is that insect bites will introduce some allergens into the skin: the viral infections behind the CFS throws a spanner in the works of our immune systems, and this probably leads to increased tendency of the immune system to malfunction, and to develop allergies. Look up: multiple chemical sensitivity. – Hip

  19. jackie Says:

    Thanks Hip,

    I will look at that…its not just me, its all of us having the same problem, so I know we all have the same ailment.

    Jac

  20. Chris Says:

    I started taking B12 supplements a week ago and noticed that has improved my energy level a bit (sometimes) and my headaches are gone. My sore throat has tempered also. However the mental fog, muscle fatigue, and dizziness continue.

  21. NeilW Says:

    Hi to everyone who reads the posts,

    I’ve taken a look at the most recent posts and to be fair I can add to the symptom list, however these are symptoms that as such are not that troubling and experienced some before anyhow.

    In the summer a few yrs ago I was cutting the grass and was bitten “the hell out of” and the reaction was so bad that I was put on medication to reduce the swelling and pain, However to be honest there was no pain just swelling. And now whenever bitten I easily swell up, but can’t be 100% this is in any way related.

    Also I do suffer with dizzy spell and sometimes when I bend over to pick up something, and even the slightest I come over all dizzy. This has been quite noticeable of late. And even without bending over I have dizzy spells, but am never out of breath in any way. So no breathing probs.

    Lastly, along with the gum disease I am suffering alot of ulcers and I mean a lot of mouth ulcers both on the inside cheeks and on the gums itself. I think this relates to my low b12. I assure you my diet is OK and in fact lead a good diet to keep my Doc happy. And this is just added to all the other symptoms.

    So yes all these symptoms are added to the list as possibly as being part of whatever it is, I or we have.

    God it’s weird.

    I’m just thankful Hip has highlighted all these likely causes as when you take a look at these virus types it just helps ease some of the anxiety and searching i do to find out what it is. I think the stomach rumbling, peripheral neuropathy and body twitching are clear indicators – that’s not stress it’s an antigen of some kind.

    NeilW

  22. Paul Says:

    Hey Neil,

    Are you sure that what you have is not a fungal infection that went systemic?

    Here is some info I found about myself which is quite interesting.
    I have Positive markers for Crohns disease, anti saccharomyces cerevisiae antibody, or ASCA. Now the one doc that told me that I have something but he does not know what it is also said because of my ASCA being high I might have inflammatory bowel disease or IBD.
    Heres where it gets tricky but makes sence. I had a colonoscopy in January I asked the GI doc about what he thought about me having IBD. His responce was, ” you don’t have IBD I seen your colon.” I can buy that, even my doctor said to trust that.
    So If I don’t have IBD but I have the markers, what’s causing my ASCA to be high?
    I just read that candida is an immunogin of anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae antibody markers of Crohn’s disease.
    So if I don’t have inflammatory bowel, is it a candida infection that’s causing the rise in my ASCA?
    Could candida be the rooot of my symptoms?

    it’s got me thinking

  23. Phooph Says:

    I think candida would become a problem with this disease because it stresses the immune system and seems to affect healthy microbes in the gut. I have some candida symptoms and many years ago had a very bad candida infection which caused severe fatigue, dizziness, sugar cravings, depression, digestive problems, rashes, etc.

    Coconut oil helps with candida, and a doctor in Germany is using it with HIV patients. I think a half cup a day is recommended. !!!

  24. CursedOne Says:

    I’ve had and have many of the same symptoms as NeilW, though thankfully dental issues are very mild by comparison.

    Here’s what I can say for certain after months of research and very little help from Infectious Disease doctors (I caught this plague from a prostitute in a foreign country):

    ID Doctors are terrible – if you doubt this read up on Lyme disease (I know it’s been mentioned here before) and mycoplasma fermantans, etc. Also, I’m not certain about candida, but this supposedly could explain most symptoms as well, and again you will not hear about this from and ID docs.

    Certain bacterial infections, specifically spirochetal infections like Lyme, as well as mycoplasma infections, can be extremely hard or impossible for the body to eliminate, even with drugs. These stealth pathogens are also famous for not showing up on blood tests, spinal taps, etc.

    Again, you will be lucky to find 1 in 100 doctors who are familiar with the above multi-system chronic infectious diseases. I recommend everyone to research these diseases and then decide whether you should find a specialist who deals exclusively in one these areas.

  25. Paul Says:

    I know we all are sick. I believe we all do not suffer the same affliction. I have symptoms like Neil. My oral manifestations aren’t that bad. But I have the rumbling stomach, white tongue, feeling just tired all the time. I’ve noticed some skin crawling and twitches lately.That might be another symptom i can add to the list or could be anxiety related.

    The more i read the more i get confused. Iv’e gone from thinking i have HIV to hepatitis to thinking it was all anxiety to mycobacteria. Crazy. Never gave EBV
    that much thought because i never had a fever. Now I almost have myself convinced it’s a fungal or yeast infection that has gone systemic on me.

    In my case i caught this from having a lap dance at a strip club believe it or not. My thing was exposed and she was holding it while straddled across my lap she had a g-string on but there might have been some contact there was absolutely no sex. My wife shows no symptoms, even after a year. How can she not? Unless her system can fight off whatever this thing is. See it’s one puzzle after another.

    Had all the common tests done at the right times and nothing showed up. Now i have something that doctors can’t figure out. everyday, like most of you, lots of time is devoted to figuring out whats wrong with ourselves.

    I know you just can’t give up but there are so many things that can be the cause of all this. Now like Cursed mentioned Mycoplasma. What’s next?

    What are we to do really? keep chasing doctors> Asking for tests that, medically speaking, make no sense?

    I don’t know if well ever find out what’s wrong with us

  26. Phooph Says:

    Paul,

    I think we will all have to deal with opportunistic infections like candida. It happens to a lot of people with chronic diseases that burden the immune system and is common in people with active HIV. It can cause a lot of the digestive tract symptoms as well as depression, foggy brain, and skin problems. There was one person who posted that he’d had his gut microbes tested and found the bad ones were high and the good ones very low or missing. I think this virus also attacks the probiotic bacteria in the gut. Yes, bacteria can get viral infections. That could also produce the periodontal symptoms as bad microbes attack the gum tissue and create plaque on the teeth. I notice that my teeth get a build up of soft plaque during the day that comes off with brushing. I use a waterpik type device that has a magnet in it which ionizes the water and makes it dissolve plaque more effectively (have had it for about 20 years).

    The twitching is probably nerves firing off. I have them too and the constant tingly feeling on my skin and especially my mouth/tongue. That can be caused by the virus attacking the nerves. There are other viruses that do that too.

    I caught this from kissing someone and was sick for two weeks but had no fever. Very odd. I was almost totally unconscious for two days but still no fever. The person I caught it from has no symptoms and is perfectly healthy. I don’t know if you saw the comment by the woman who caught it from her perfectly healthy husband. Some people have immune systems that are able to keep it in check but they can pass it on. I have a friend who has been HIV positive for decades and is one of the healthiest people I know. Hardly ever gets sick with anything.

    Speaking of HIV, the first recorded death in the US was was in the 1950s. The death was so strange that tissue samples were kept and tested after HIV was identified. The book, Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask, published in the early 60s, described HIV but had no name for it. It was a mysterious disease that affected gays, IV drug users and prostitutes. In the 1980s we finally began to hear about it.

    It may take a couple of decades for this disease to be recognized by the medical community and that may have to wait till the virus is identified and a test available.

    Things you can do are to eat a very healthy diet and take vitamins, minerals and immune boosting supplements. Stay away from sugar in all forms. Not only does candida feast and proliferate on it but it also suppresses the immune system. Same goes for refined carbohydrates. Eat lots of vegetables and protein foods. The Paleolithic diet is probably the best (cave man diet). Look it up online. Some people are finding B12 helps with energy. I and another poster on this blog are using the Nutri-Energetics System (google it). It has not eliminated the disease but I can function normally. Finding a practitioner may be a challenge unless you live in Europe where it has been around about 8 years. I live in the US and just happened to know a practitioner who wanted to try it on me to see what it would do. Happily it has improved my energy so that I am back to normal in that department and the sore throat, previously a big problem is much reduced along with the amount of thick mucous that used to drain out of my sinuses all the time. It also keeps the pins and needles and twitching to a minimum. Still dealing with the other stuff, though. The NES is related to acupuncture so you may try that also.

    I think we will all be in the position of managing a chronic disease until such time as something that kills viruses in vivo is invented.

  27. CursedOne Says:

    Hip, I found out about a couple things that all of the chronically sick should know about. The first is a diagnostic tool called the Greenechip, which is unfortunately not yet available to the general public. You may want to contact the team at The Center for Infection and Immunity, at the Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University. Here is some more info as well:

    http://www.labtechnologist.com/Products/GreeneChip-for-faster-disease-diagnosis

    The second is a program at the National Institutes of Health called the Undiagnosed Diseases Program:

    http://www.labtechnologist.com/Products/GreeneChip-for-faster-disease-diagnosis

    Finally, I continue to be awed at the overlap in the symptoms you describe and the candida symptoms. I have no idea whether this coincidence might be a result of the immune-compromised state this disease creates, thus enabling the candida, or if some of the people here have candida overgrowth exclusively. The latter seems less likely, I’m afraid.

    REPLY: Many thanks for those pointers. We certainly need a system such as the GreeneChip in the world. (The GreeneChip is similar to a system I read about called the the Virochip, developed at the University of California). Perhaps in a few years it will be commonly available.

    Candida infection could be a problem for the CFS immune-comprised, but it usually stays local, manifesting itself as oral thrush, or a localized skin infection. I have not seen any scientific evidence for the systemic candidiasis described in the above link. This systemic candidiasis condition I think is a myth, manufactured by the alternative health book publishers. I even bought one of these candida books myself years ago. – Hip

  28. mark Says:

    Hip, I have been reading a lot on your website but never made any comments.
    Last year I was under huge stress, after contracting some bug oversease in Asia (food poison) I began to have 60% of symptoms what you have:
    constant sore throat and very red
    constant ringing ears both
    very fatigue
    low levels (border line testestorone)
    high levels in urine test sulfate like 4x hifgher than the norm
    positive antibody to ALL 1-6 coxsackie virus
    blood tests done 10 times for brucelossis which never come the same, either equvical or positive or negative, weired ID gave up.
    positive herpes1&2 IGg and IGM except ID said IGM will not say if it is for I or II
    old EBV IGG positive but neagtive IGM
    negtive for herpes 6 and negative HIV
    my biggest issue is sore throat for 10 months and constant throat clearing that does not go away
    easily brusing and alwasy sweat when eat bigger meal or even little walking, weired.

    I sleep well 8 to 9 hrs but does not help my fatigue.
    used to be bedbound coz pain in muscles and neck and back but this seems to resolved 90% still have pain there but much less. I have been trying Immunocal whey protein advised by dr cheney for a week now but not much difference they said it takes 3 months min.

    Hip do you still have a sore throat?

    REPLY: I doubt that you have all 6 Coxsackie B viruses, Mark. If your doctor gave you the “CFT” test for coxsackievirus/enterovirus, note that this test is not specific, and gives a positive result if any coxsackievirus is present. So your test results will probably say something like:

    Coxsackie virus CFT (serotypes B1 – B6): positive.

    This just means that one (or perhaps more) of the 6 Coxsackie serotypes was detected.

    The sore throat never really goes away, but some days it is minimal. – Hip

  29. mark Says:

    Hip, I forgot to mention other minor symptoms:
    1.when i stand up for longer time like more than 5 min I became feeling weired
    2. extremely sensitive to chemicals, or noise
    3. lose weight, gain weight up and down
    4. twiches in muscles legs or arms
    5. white tongue
    6. vertical ridges on my nails never had before
    7. can not do any mulititasking makes me worst too much input data i guess
    8. daytime low body temp. like 36c eve time high 37.4c but not always
    9. canker sore in mouth someties on lips
    10. can not tolerate cold temp anything below 60F
    11. cold feet hands, bad blood circulation i guess
    did I say constant sore throat and this phlegm inside
    12. might be few more I dont rememebr now

    REPLY: Sensitivity to chemicals, noise and light is common in CFS. I have this. Inability to multitask is a frequent symptom in CFS. I have this too. Transverse ridges in fingernails (called Beau’s lines) can be caused by coxsackievirus. Nail loss can also happen: search for onychomadesis on this page. – Hip

  30. may Says:

    sore troat forever, plus fatigue, I’am inmune to some atibiotics now because every two or three monts I get so sick that use them would get better but now Iam inmune to some of them and I get better but never 100% o.k. allergy medicine helps, so after many, many tests by a doctor that really did not believe I was crazy, I have some positive results for citomegalovirus, he gave me some natural staff that help, they olnly help, I’ts depressing I am always tired and felt sick my sore throat makes my life miserable, its there something that can help me?

  31. NeilW Says:

    Hi Paul and everyone else who has posted on this blog with their comments.

    I have received the suggestion of a systemic candida infection before, but am not convinced that this is what I have. Due to the comibination of symptoms that I have, however again the symptoms of candida are similar to those that I am experiencing daily.

    As I said I’ve had this now for 5+yrs and it’s getting worse by the day. I also believe this could be a poss STD, but I can tell you that to my knowledge my partner doesn’t have it, or ta least in the same form I have it anyhow. I believe she’s free from this thank god.

    Your symptoms are near identical to mine and if the same I believe your symptoms will subside/decrease to a point where you will have the same as me. That’s provided we have the same thing and your body deals with it the same as me.

    In a stange and unfortunate way I am just relieved that I know somebody else with the same experiences as this confirms to me that I’ve been right all along and I’m not insane or suffering with any form of GAD.

    I visit this site ongoing and will continue to do so. I suggest you do also Paul.

    If you have any questions let me know and I’ll give you my take on it all.

    NeilW

  32. mark Says:

    Thanks Hip. Now here is the question to you all.
    Before you started experiencing all the issues have you have some kind of trauma (can by physical, psychological etc).

    I used to be a (2 years ago) very healthy, sport oriented x-hockey player type A personality, working hard and trying to achieve in my lif as much as I could. 2 years ago I had one of my family member (dad) who I had to help for 6 months with treatments for his lung cancer (he was a liftime smoker for 40 years) so dealing with this and work ( got laid off) and other issues loosing home same time and loosing him and job created extreme stress to me. First thing I noticed my blood pressure were very high ( took meds not much help) then I believe my endrocrinology system depleted testestorone coz my brain was always altered like in fight-or-flight position. I started getting lost appetite, lost 30 lbs in 1 year, become easily upset, and had some depression. However after few months there was no more other sympotoms and I was actually getting beter.
    What really did screwed up was a trip to asia ( see temples etc) thats were I ate some local food and got very sick same day ended up in hospital under IV for 3 days non-stop water was coming out of me i was on toilet every 30 min day and nite, really weakend my system, finally after 3 days it got better and I was ok, however I was very weak. I got appetite back etc. day later (stupid of me) I decided to run on the beach.. (mistake) i knew I was weak but I thought this would help. after just 20 min run something happened I felt something went thru to me (my system must have gave up coz was too weak to do any exercise) like all the sudden my legs gave up (felt like cotton legs) and i felt cold despite outside was 90F and 80% humidity. So I took my scooter back home and told my girlfriend about it. Right away I felt something not rght with me, started getting high BP, litlle fever and ichy throat and sweating even in AC room where was 70F. Going forward next few days I started to have night sweats ( which I nver had in my whole life before) and room again was AC 70F in which i never sweat when sleep.

    I went back to the USA and slowly, day after day, symptoms started to pop up: sore throat, itchy throat, little fever but not high, very fatigue, sleeping 10 hrs but still tired. Week later night sweats came back and lasted 10 days. And 20 days later I went to ID DR. who run bunch of tests on me. Gave me some Levaquin 500mg coz he thought I might have Brucella (even though it show on thest equivicol, he was not sure) 2 Days after taking Levaquin my both ears started to ring (which till now never goes away) so I took for 2 months Levaquin with rifampin. This did not help. In December and January I had extreme pain all over my neck including limph nodes andback and legs joints and muscles, I was most of the time in bed or sofa. In March pain slowly started to go away from neck and back and in April 80% was gone. However, sore-red throat and phlegm flowing in back of my throat (I believe is for trying to heal something in throat) continue to flow every few minutes. it like a sticky glue. Till now I have constant ringing ears and sensitivities to sounds, noises and even cooking. However I did tests for majority of food, pollen dust etc alergies and all came back negative.

    Can ANY of YOU who read this associate with my story, meaning how stress can start the malfanction of system and then a final those of viral or other pathogen infection finishes the job and BOOM CFIDS/CFS/ME whateve it is we ended up with? I read in details and listen some guy in england called Ashok Gupta and his hypthesis about amygdala etc. What is interesting when I saw my ID Dr. who relly was good and tried to help me said; it looks like your immune system is over-reacting and it is on hyper-alert stage thats why you get facial rushes etc he said and he wanted me to put 2 weeks on steroid but I refused it since I did not believe this would help. In my opinion (with my experience) ALL 4 systems in CFIDS/ME patients does not work well and talk together:
    1. Immune system
    2. endrocrinology system
    3.central nervous sytem
    4. brain system (including amygdala etc)
    I think because they don’t communicate well together those systems works on slow motion mode (just enough to keep us alive) but not to be well.
    Therefore, all latent pathogens might get reactivated like herpies or coxsackie or other viruses and immune system is in some way switched off 80% coz is not communicating well with the central nervous system and brain.

    REPLY: A quite new area of scientific research is “immune evasion” – this is an attack system used by viruses, bacteria, etc, to damage our immune system, so that these viruses can survive in our body. Many microbes use
    immune evasion, so our immune systems get weak. One common tactic in microbe immune evasion is destroying or disrupting the communications system of the immune system. This is often why we stay sick – because out immune system communications is disrupted, and so we cannot clear the virus out. – Hip

    Did you notice when we get too much input like try to watch TV, and listen someone talknig to you? Before you could to this and also eat at the same time, now one thing at the time only, your central nervous system is not talking well with brain therefore we are on slow-mode not to get worst or overwelmed which can make us worst. I was always a logical guy and in situation like this I search a logical answer which is not easy. I noticed one thing if I try to relax and as little as possible stress over all I would feel better but again symptoms are still there.

    REPLY: Yes, this is a big problem: we cannot do two things at the same time now – a very common problem in CFS. – Hip

    I have appt in Sept 31, with Dr John Chia in Torrance, Hip I think you know this Dr. his sone has CFIDS for last 10 years I think, and his son had coxsakie B viruses (I think 3 of them) and now he feels 90% better. Well I think he was only 18 so its easier when you younger. Did any of you see Dr Chia, and did any of you can associated your cases to mine in some ways: stress>>>some viral or bacterial infection>>>depression coz symptoms>>>>more symptoms follows etc..? typical for CFIDS I think ppl.
    Mark

    REPLY: It will be very interesting hear what Dr Chia says whe you se him in September, and what remedies he prescribes for you. – Hip

  33. Rain Says:

    Hip,
    I’ve been wondering. Have you tried anything lately that is known to break down biofilms? This seems to be one of the most popularly identified ways in which these “modern pathogens” are adapting in order to live within us. I’m curious.
    Also, does your wife seem to live free of many of these symptoms or do you both suffer about equally?
    Thanks. I hope today is a “good” day.

    REPLY: Hi rain. Biofilms have always been created by bacteria as their outer defense system, and as the solid foundations and scaffolding in the areas of our body that they claim as their home. We have only quite recently (in the last 15 years) starting studying biofilms in depth, but the research is uncovering lots f new insights.

    For example, we now realize that the brown calcified plaque deposits on our teeth (dental calculus) are actually biofilm structures generated by the bacteria in our mouths. These hard-to-penetrate oral biofilms provides a shelter for the microscopic bacteria, protecting them from our immune systems, antibiotics,… and our toothbrushes.

    “Biofilms form when bacteria adhere to surfaces in aqueous environments and begin to excrete a slimy, glue-like substance that can anchor them to all kinds of material – such as metals, plastics, soil particles, medical implant materials and, most significantly, human or animal tissue” (Ref: William Costerton).

    If we can develop effective means to dissolve biofilms without damaging adjacent healthy tissue, then it will be much easier to kill the bacteria living in these biofilms. I am not aware of any good pharmaceutical anti-biofilm agents. There are some natural substances that can hep a little: xylitol (a natural sugar, used by diabetics, and found in “sugar-free” gum) is known to inhibit the formation of oral biofilm (plaque); and the dietary supplement serrapeptase may help dissolve biofilms. Chlorine dioxide also has some anti-biofilm effect (chlorine dioxide can be obtained from the “Miracle Mineral Supplement” that has been recently popularized).

    If you find any others, please let us all know.

    If you have bad bacteria in your intestines (which is likely if you have immune-suppression), then the bioflims these bacteria generate to adhere to your gut is a major obstacle to eliminating them. – Hip

  34. Rain Says:

    I forgot to mention: I’m in month 27 of this affliction. Your website is like a textbook for what I’m going through. Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia Centers didn’t know what to do with me. I don’t know what to do with myself… But I do find it somewhat helpful to see what others are dealing with and how.

  35. Paul Says:

    you have me confused you said “you’ve had this for 5 years and keep getting worse” Then you go on to say, “Your symptoms are near identical to mine and if the same I believe your symptoms will subside/decrease to a point where you will have the same as me.” what do you mean by decrease? H

    Have they gotten better or worse?

  36. Adam Says:

    I have experienced about 80% of these symptoms over nearly 2 years and they even occurred in the order you listed.

    -Sore throat (chronic)
    -Swollen tonsils (chronic, had them removed after 1.5 years)
    -difficulty breathing thorough nose (got better after tonsillectomy, then somewhat worse again)
    -Difficulty drawing a very deep breath
    -depression
    -severe anxiety
    -loss of motivation
    -never have %100 energy (in pictures of me I look so tired compared to 2 years ago)
    -loss of libido
    -unable to concentrate as hard
    -make more mistakes spelling, feeling dyslexic
    -blurred vision
    -rash (cleared up after 3 months)
    -after I had my tonsillectomy I’ve been developing these strange translucent, solid blisters on the back end of my soft plate in symmetrical locations next to where my tonsils were removed. After a few days an individual one will collapse and may bleed a tiny bit. Also my throat and my palate appear more veiny, slightly red and have tiny bumps on them.

    I went to my ENT some months ago and he just looked at my tonsils and said “cut em out” I asked if we should do any tests to see what it is and he told me that it didn’t matter. When my throat was still sore 60 days after the surgery I went to him and he said that it looked fine and that I’m healing well. Then the blisters started to show up. I’m seeing a new primary care physician next week and I’m printing this out a showing to him, I’ll see what he thinks. Maybe I need to find a new ENT.

    I’ve searched the internet over the months searching for ideas of what it could be. It shares some symptoms with common colds, STDs etc. but not enough to say “this is it!” but when I found this page last week, it was crazy how much it matched. I even thought that my depression and anxiety was just because I was sick and didn’t know why but now I see that it’s BECAUSE of the virus that I have mental symptoms.

  37. NeilW Says:

    Hello Paul,

    Sorry to confuse you.

    When I contrated whatever it is, I had an initial bout of what I thought was flu and was knocked off my feet for at least a week and even after I was suffering with all the other symptoms such as severe sore throat, heavy nasal congestion, headaches, dry mouth/eyes etc and the white tongue. After 2-3mths the above subsided and a whole new ball game started. To give you an idea, no nasal congestion, no sore throat and no dry mouth/eyes.

    I now have muscle twitching, peripheral neuropathy, blood shot eyes, balance problems, fatigue, lower abdominal pain (although I think kidney as it works from the front of my stomach to my back), short-term memory loss, rumbling stomach/digestive prob and gum disease – which hassles me and as you say “freaks me out” but doesn’t stop me from carrying on day to day as best I can. The initial symptoms stopped me doing anything at all.

    Again nothing to say or to confirm that we have the same thing, but as I’ve always said this site and your symptoms are the closest thing I’ve come across that makes me think this is what I may have. After all no med pro given a diagnosis or any treatment that helps in any way.

    So in some ways I have gotten better and in others gotten worse. I can perform but no where near my best. As I can be walking and suddenly I am all dizzy andf need to hold onto something. Or my torso will start twitching.

    I guess what I am saying is I just live with it and get on with it. I hope this clears up and gives you an indea what I mean ?

    NeilW

    REPLY: I think Neil is touching on an important point: although in general you don’t get better, you learn to adapt, live with, and sometimes compensate for the various symptoms. So, in effect, you can get a little better, in the sense of learning to manage your symptoms better. This learning takes time – years in fact – especially as you often feel you don’t want to adapt or learn. You don’t want to even believe or accept that this could have happened to you.

    But slowly it does sink in that you may have to live with the changes brought about by this virus. However, it certainly worth maintaining a healthy quota of defiant non-acceptance: in the sense of being hopeful about a cure or significant treatment. – Hip

  38. Asklepius Says:

    my symptoms are like a lot of other people here:
    – loss of feeling, numbness, tingling
    – ringing in ears, headaches
    – skin cracking (corners of mouth especially)
    – stomach pain / food sensitivities
    – brain fog, difficulty learning/remembering, confusion
    – withered look
    – depression, anxiety
    – etc, etc, etc

    i had started to see my symptoms starting to get better, so what next ?

    i have seen other families break apart because of this … relationships degrade into swearing/yelling/arguments mostly over nothing.

    well, my wife of eight years and mother of our beautiful 4 year old daughter has decided to divorce me and move on. i watched this infection change her personality and there wasn’t anything i could do to stop it. now, everything incites anger from her. she says that she feels nothing for me and basically blames me for all of her problems.

    this infection had already taken a lot from me – now i have to carve up the life/family that i’ve worked so hard for over these years.

    i keep trying to have hope for the future, but it becomes more difficult with each new hurdle.

  39. Paul Says:

    I was just searching medhelp.com. You would not believe the amount of people experiencing these same symptoms. All you have to do is type stomach noises, stomach growling or stomach grumbling + hiv.

    Seems that this might be something that is an std. Or just can be caught very easily with close contact.

    My wife thinks all this that i’m experiencing is mental and it’s my anxiety that is causing all my problems. She is a wise woman. Just wish i could say she is right this time.

    I just had dinner and my guts are making all sorts of noises. The reason for that is I believe the intestine are inflamed. And they are just not functioning like they should because if it. I think CRP is a marker for inflammatory disease correct me please if i’m wrong.

  40. jackie Says:

    Hi Guys,

    Has anyone noticed a difference in appearance, sunken eyes, facial changes? things like that. Of course the skin difference, but like, unable to catch the sun the same as you have for years.

    Jac

  41. Asklepius Says:

    I have definitely noticed a loss of muscle tone (sunken features) in myself and a few around me.
    I’ve also notice that my skin doesn’t tan the same way that it used to. It almost feels like the sun burns instantly.

    Funny, but this infection does give some people a zombie-like appearance (in addition to the zombie-like behavior).

  42. jackie Says:

    Hi Asklepius,

    Thank god I am not the only zombie looking person, do you also have sore painful muscles that are totally random, at the moment I am having the worst pain at the back of my legs below the calf but above the ankle.

    This I believe is where the lymph flows, according to the reflexologist. Sometimes its hard to walk. I have done some research and it appears it is the endocrine system out of balance, the adrenals and thyroid. have you any other ideas.

    Jac

  43. Paul2 Says:

    This site sure is scary. I am currently 20 going 21. A few years ago i had what i thought was just a really bad sore throaght. this was before i went to university. Went to the doctors and his prescriptions did not help (he prescribed to me a sort of spray that couldnt even target the affected areas) and he said its al i could have and gave me more to bunk me out of his room – maybe he knew i had something bad and didnt want the task of diagnosing/treating me.

    The sore throaght slowly ebbed away into a low tingle and irritating sore throaght only to be joined by nasal congestion and blockages in the ear/throaght passages. Over the following few years the throaght came back periodically worse off every time. in my second and third years of university the pressure of work and social happenings combined maybe with a problem like this i went through sesions of apethy, depression, lack of motivaiton and more recently odd 3 or 4 second flares of anger that just dissapear and appear sopontaneously.

    I also suffered extreme headaches, stomach upsets and bowel pains.

    Again, with my parents continually assuring me I was being a hypochondriac and the fact i trusted my local doctor no more than my next doors pet cat to diagnose me i “put up with my symptoms”.

    I had always been an antisocial person but lately i have taken to closing my curtains and locking myself in my room.

    Now, barely 4 days after my graduation ceremony I noticed a large dark red splodgy burn-like mark to the left of the upper half of my mouth (completely unlike anything described here) more like a bruise than anything. I woke up this morning with a throaght that felt like it was on fire and pains when i open and close my mouth.

    The pain was so high about 10 ins ago i felt like vomiting but when i did so (only a little) what came up was clear, saliva like liquid containing a white frothy solid.

    My doctors is closed today as it is for 3 days a week (poor operating procedure methinks) but i will go see him asap and tell him what i think.

    This sure does sound like what ive got as I’ve had a sore throaght for about what 4 or 5 years now and nothing soothes the pain, nothing makes it go away. Its just hell.

    Thankyou for this website. Its been like a splash of cold water in my face. I shall tell you my doctors response in due course.

    REPLY: Hi Paul2 (I changed your online name so as not to confuse with another Paul here). The dark red burn-like mark may be a local infection, and may heal with 5 minutes of daily gargling with warm salty water, which is often an excellent cure for mouth or tooth infections (but you probably should see a doctor anyway).

    It is unusual to have pain with the sore throat described on this site. Perhaps you have a concurrent bacterial infection of the throat. Has your doctor taken bacterial swabs from your throat for testing?

    Like everyone on this site, your general physical and psychological symptoms may fall under the diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), also referred to as myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME). Very few doctors are able to recognize and diagnose CFS/ME, but if you search the Internet for people’s personal accounts with CFS, you will realize that you are not alone with these symptoms, and in fact there are many web sites and organizations that have been set up to assist.

    However, do not confuse the DIAGNOSIS with the CAUSE of your symptoms. The diagnosis is categorizing your cluster of symptoms and metabolic disturbances under one recognized syndrome or disease. But the disease or syndrome itself will usually be caused a virus, bacteria, fungus, or various other types of microbe (or a combination of such microbes); and/or caused by the toxins constantly generated in your body by these microbes; and/or caused by environmental toxins; and/or caused by you genetic disposition.

    So just knowing that your have chronic fatigue syndrome does not usually pinpoint what is causing your CFS. Some primary causal culprits in CFS are: coxsackievirus B, HHV-6A and Epstein-Barr virus.

    There are also many things that can help reduced CFS and anxiety symptoms a little. See here.- Hip

  44. Paul2 Says:

    also I forgot to mention i now have to wear stronger glasses after every eye apptmt whereas they used to get weaker every time and i now need reaction lenses to stop my light sensitivity.

  45. Paul Says:

    I’m Paul #1 not the new paul

    Hey jackie,

    For sure when i 1st got this bug i lost 9 pounds I gained it back but not in the places i lost it. My cheeks seem more sunken (facial) My ass a bit smaller. But i gained a bit in the stomach. Weird. My wife said it’s the stress that makes my face look thinner.

  46. Paul Says:

    Buy the way. How is everyone’s appetite since you git sick? Mine is almost defeated.

  47. jackie Says:

    Hi Paul,

    I have the same problem, lost loads of weight, looked so poorly but now I have got it all back around the middle, cant do up my jeans and someone has stolen my waist.

    As to appetite, I have none, those hunger gurgles and pains normal people get, none..nothing.. its like the stomach is paralysed, we don’t communicate at all. I can go all day without anything and it doesn’t complain. ( of course I don’t ) but the day can be going on and I will look at the clock say its about 4pm, then I throw something down because I think I should but I don’t want it .

    Is that what you are like Paul? Is your wife OK or does she have it too.

    Jac

  48. Paul Says:

    It’s funny cuz every so often i’ll get hungry or what i remember what seems like it. I never have the urge to eat anymore in the AM. Now about 50% of the time I’ll feel something around dinner time. I just had lucnh at 2 and i’ll bet come 6 i won’t be hungry.

    As for my wife. She seems ok. But one thing she had had for months is dry cracked lips.

  49. Asklepius Says:

    this infection is diabolical in nature. it doesn’t have any identifiable test markers and people aren’t dying from this either.
    when AIDS first came out, no one believed that people were infected until they started dying.

    the medical system has programmed everyone in it to believe that the simplest explanation is the right one (it is incapable of dealing with something new).
    a GP will listen to your symptoms, but only believe what your test results show.
    all of these symptoms can be explained by stress. are you under stress? yes? (i know YOU are). well, then stress must be your problem.

    i have had numerous blood tests … all that have shown me to be healthy, but i know that i am sicker than a dog.

    i’ll soon be following up with a post of my past 4 years of dealing with this (and maybe someone can relate).

  50. Paul Says:

    Asklepius,

    That was well said.

    Nobody is dying from this yet. Not yet anyway and that scares me. The progression of this thing hits hard at the beginning then seems to leave you in a world of crap with symptoms that won’t let up. In my case my symptoms are vague that when i go to the dr i almost have to act up abit just to try to get him to listen. But that dosen’t mean i don’t feel like someone dropped a dumpster on me.
    I recall one of the doctors telling me that i’m healthy right now just to live my life. But he was also the one telling me that my body was fighting something and that he didn’t know what it is. Looking back I should have called him on that.

    My GP looks at my labs and sees nothing abnormal, so what else could he think? I tell him I feel like crap, he looks at my labs then tells me I’m anxious. It’s such an easy diagnosis this stress, anxiety. At least the one doctor admitted I have something going on.

    As far as markers go. Docs don’t know what to look for , it’s like finding a toothpick in a lumberyard.

    If anyone here takes test for Immune Complex Detection by C1q Binding. I would bet almost everything i have it will come out positive. The bad part of it is that it is non specific, it just shows something floating in your blood that should not be.

  51. mark1 Says:

    Hi All,

    I can tell you what marker tests to do. I did those tests and if you do you pretty sure havd ME or CFS.

    1. Urine test for sulfate (mine was 400% higher than normal)
    2. C3d Circulating Immune Complex mine was 55 range 0-8 so something in blood your system if trying to get rid off, either pathogen, chemical or cytokines not sure
    3. Brucella blood tests (mine was coming with 3 different answers:
    positive
    negative
    or possible maybe= equivocal
    4. Immunoglobulins blood test:
    there are 3 of them”
    IgA
    IgG
    IgM mine was elevated to 342 normal range: 48-271
    5. C-peptide serum
    6. for men to testestorone , cortisol, DHEA and fe more
    if you low you know your glands are not producing enough stuff coz brain is not sending correct signals to glands and thats why we are always tired (low level hormones)

  52. Hip Says:

    Hi Folks

    A few comments have been caught in the automatic spam filters of this blog this week, which have now been posted up.

    The 3 new comments are:

    Mark Says…

    Adam Says…

    Asklepius Says…

    Hip

  53. jackie Says:

    Hi fellow sufferers,

    Just a quick observation, has anyone elso developed longitude ridges on their finger nails?

    Jac

    REPLY: Yes, there was an discussion above on this transverse nail rides subject: they are called Beau’s Lines.

    Zinc supplement are usually the panacea for many nail conditions.

    If any of you want to send me some digital close up pictures of your nail symptoms, I can put them on the web site. – Hip

  54. Steven Says:

    Hi Jackie,

    I noticed them about 8 months ~ 1 year ago and the ridges are very defined. I’ve been suffering from this condition for about 4 years now.

    Many of my other symptoms have improved but this seems to be a new one that a number of other people have also mentioned. I’ve been experimenting with collagen drinks to see if it will have any effect on the skin/ nail symptoms.

  55. paul Says:

    Mark mentions something about his nails and vertical ridges.

  56. NeilW Says:

    YES Hip quite correct.

    My last post was purely to highlight that I have numerous symptoms similar to everyone else on this forum, but regardless of how the symptoms worsen I try my best to carry on. As other postings read, no one is actually dying from this and because the symptoms are non-specific the response from the med pros is not overly panicked or even concerned perhaps. And so because of this it’s down to us to carry on with the fight and search the net for possible answers and med pros that could help.

    As I and Paul have mentioned, the med pros we have seen recognise that something is wrong with us put can’t pinpoint what it is, so brush us off with “you have something” but don’t worry it will pass. Which it doesn’t and it only worses with time. The short-term memory loss is almost alzheimers like and the skin crawling ongoing with no break whatsoever. On top of all the other stuff.

    I also think this maybe STD related. But as I’ve said before my partner of 20yrs has no symptoms such as mine – no skin crawling/muscle twitching or blood shot itchy eyes. And I panic at the thought of it being anything like that, and that does make me anxious admittedly.

    Anyway a question, did anyone on this forum when they first came down ill experience a blistering mouth on the soft palate. In other words, have blisters on the roof of their mouth that eventually burst and went away leaving the spots. I ask because others have mentioned mouth symptoms and I wondered if the initial onset was the same as mine??? Do you guys also suffer head skin crawling ??

    Any comms appreciated.

    NeilW

    REPLY: Do you mean ulcers like this? I could offer two possible explanations: (1), it was the original (probably) Coxsackie virus that directly caused them; (2), they are caused by something else, like herpes simplex, which many people already have. I know someone that, as they caught my virus, immediately developed really huge herpes cold sores all around their lips. Huge ones. I think it is the potent immune-suppressive action of my coxsackievirus that allows latent herpes (and other microbes) to then pop up and flare up.

    By the way, people have died from this virus. Four people had heart attacks on being exposed to it, and one of them, who was otherwise very healthy, died. Again, this is further evidence that the virus is coxsackievirus B, which is a major cause of sudden heart attacks. Not all of you here will have the same virus, but mine is likely to be an enterovirus of the coxsackievirus B group. Incidentally, coxsackievirus and rotavirus have been identified as the probable causes of sudden infant death syndrome too.

    Coxsackievirus B is a very nasty creature, very hard to identify by testing, so it usually passes under the medical test radar, but causes much calamity for the human race. – Hip

  57. Hip Says:

    By the way, in terms of tackling this enterovirus / coxsackievirus scourge, Dr Chia, and several other key scientists, recently have set up the Enterovirus Foundation:

    http://www.enterovirusfoundation.org

    and are currently seeking funds to help investigate and eliminate this vile virus. Here is what they say on their web site:

     

    About the Enterovirus Foundation

    It is with great pleasure that we introduce the Enterovirus Foundation!

    The Enterovirus Foundation, founded in November 2008, is a non-profit organization created to fund research to discover the persistent effects of enteroviruses, to determine the role they play in both acute and chronic disease, and to develop treatments to cure and prevent these diseases.

    2009 Projects

    Even though the Enterovirus Foundation is just getting started, we have big plans for 2009. Here are our prospective projects.

    Determine the role of EV in disease
    The EV Foundation will provide pilot grants for promising scientific and clinical research.

    Find antiviral compounds for effective treatment
    The EV Foundation will support studies for the development of antiviral and antienteroviral medications. Our preliminary plans are to work with organizations such as the Rega Institute in Belgium and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to extend and accelerate work that is already in progress.

    Develop better diagnostic capabilities for “hard to detect” enteroviral infections
    After the acute phase of an infection, enteroviruses can leave the blood serum and cerebral spinal fluid, completely retreating to organs and other tissue. As a result, it can be difficult to diagnose enteroviral infections without a biopsy, and even then, the tests are limited. The EV Foundation will work with scientists and diagnostic companies to develop better diagnostic tools for detecting these viruses more quickly, less invasively, and with methods that work in less advantaged areas of the world.

    Accelerate communication across the research and medical communities
    The EV Foundation will sponsor an international conference every year to encourage collaboration between scientists and medical professionals for the purpose of sharing knowledge and determining the most effective use of research funding.

  58. tina Says:

    soo Mayo clinic is no help. i basically learned i wasn’t in any danger dying right now, they sent me home with a steroid nasal spray for “eustation tube dysfunction” (may have spelled that incorrectly) , physical therapy neede for the nervous system problems and of course postpartum depression since i was pregnant last year. dont waste your money. w insurance 3 grand! i even told them about this site. that made them look at me like i was crazy. unless a lot of people get together and call this an epidemic, no ones gonna turn their heads there.

  59. Phooph Says:

    I do not expect to see any real help from the medical community on this. Except for the occasional antibiotic and some diagnostic stuff I have not gotten a lot of help through the standard medical model and turned to alternatives a long time ago. I have had more help from acupuncture, chiropractic, deep tissue body work, good diet and supplementation. I am currently using the Nutri-Energetics System treatments and it has my symptoms down to a minimal level and my energy back to normal.

    Here’s an article I received in an e-newsletter yesterday.

    How to Turn a Time of Illness Into One of Strength and Growth

    Brenda Shoshanna, PhD

    llness is as much a part of life as health — and brings with it opportunities for personal growth.
    It is difficult to remember this in the midst of a crisis, but you do have a say. Instead of giving in to feelings of hopelessness and withdrawing from life, it is possible to actually improve the quality of your life — by repairing fractured relationships, making positive changes and embracing the love of family and friends. Important steps…
    PUT GUILT ASIDE
    Everyone has regrets, which are often magnified during a prolonged or end-of-life illness. Patients may feel guilty because they don’t want to be a burden and because they want to maintain self-respect. Some feel that they can no longer contribute to others.
    Family members, on the other hand, may experience guilt simply because they’re healthy and their loved ones are not. It’s difficult to go forward in life while a person they love is no longer able to.
    Guilt is a toxic emotion that damages relationships. It can make a patient’s final days (or years) less fulfilling than they could be.
    Advice for the patient: Every family has regrets from the past. Take this time to ask for apologies and to offer them… tell your loved ones what they’ve meant to you… and thank them for all they’ve done and given.
    Advice for family members: Don’t stop living. By going forward in your life and maintaining a positive attitude, you can uplift your family members and bring more energy and hope to your ill loved one. Those who give up on their lives, who make themselves martyrs, exude a sense of despair, which has a bad effect on everybody.
    MAINTAIN YOUR POWER
    The fear that accompanies illness can make us feel timid and childlike. When that happens, it’s natural to look for an authority figure — usually a doctor — to make decisions for us.
    No matter who your doctor is, you’re the one in control. You might not be able to change the course of your illness, but you can take charge of the way you respond to it, the decisions you make and the actions you take. It is important to make your own decisions during the course of the illness. If you cannot do this, have a family member ask for details about a treatment and possible alternatives. Those who engage actively with their illness and maintain a sense of control feel less like victims.
    Many people live for years with a serious illness. The ways in which you approach the illness, your emotions, beliefs, actions and sense of self-esteem all affect the quality of your days and often the outcome.
    REDUCE STRESS
    Try meditation and/or visualization. Both techniques help reduce pain as well as stress and depression. They can also improve the quality of your life — and you can do them on your own, and in all circumstances…
    Visualization. Patients imagine, in as much detail as possible, a scenario in which they’re happy and at peace: Sitting by a lake in the woods… walking in a meadow… a moment with special friends, etc.
    Other forms of visualization involve picturing the illness dissolving and other parts of the person growing stronger.
    Meditation. There are many forms of meditation, all of which develop balance and focus. Concentration on the breath, or on a phrase that is meaningful, or repetition of a prayer, calms the system and quiets turbulent feelings and thoughts.
    LISTEN TO YOUR ILLNESS
    Research has shown that negative emotions, such as depression and anxiety, can manifest themselves as physical symptoms or even disease. It’s common, for example, for a spouse who has lost a long-term partner to die shortly afterward.
    It can be very helpful to look a little more deeply into your life and see what stress might be creating or fueling your illness. Sometimes when we are depressed or feel hopeless, our immune systems are weakened and do not fight disease as well as they might. When some individuals make personal changes in their lives, they notice that the pain and symptoms they experience can decrease or dissolve completely. Illness can be used as an opportunity for emotional healing, and emotional healing can impact illness.
    EMBRACE THE CHANGE
    Although no one wants to be sick, the more we resist and deny what’s happening, the less energy we have available to heal. The more we engage in catastrophic thinking, the worse we feel.
    Better: Stay in the present. Rather than dwell on what could or will happen, experience each day as it is.
    Helpful: Focus on what is good and enjoyable. Reflect on your life — those things that give you pleasure, what is meaningful, what you would like to do next. Be especially aware of all of the love that you’ve given and received.
    When you are able to, it is beneficial to resume as much of your usual activities as possible. If possible, stay in touch with friends, invite them to visit, and plan outings and trips that are enjoyable and meaningful.
    People who view illness as a spiritually transforming experience have more peace of mind and less fear and anger. They often grow to realize that all of life is impermanent and that, ultimately, they’re part of that which is greater than themselves. This promotes serenity.
    FOR FAMILY MEMBERS
    Family members are often afraid to talk honestly with patients. They tend to pretend that everything will be fine… to act cheerful when they are upset and sad. Sometimes they even withhold medical information.
    Better: Be real. Patients know intuitively when those around them are “faking it.” What they need most is to feel close and connected, to be treated with honesty, which is another way of saying “with respect.”
    Don’t laugh when you feel like crying. It’s OK to express feelings of sadness and to share moments of concern. It’s also important to allow the patient to say what he/she really thinks and to feel what he really feels. Don’t keep trying to cheer someone up if he wants to express doubt and fear. Just be there for him and listen. This will mean a great deal.
    It’s important to be honest with patients, but this does not mean that you can say everything to everyone. Most patients let you know what they really want to know and what they prefer to have kept from them. It’s important to listen and respect where the patient is coming from and to be sensitive to his feelings.

  60. NeilW Says:

    Hi again Hip,

    Sorry I don’t wish to disregard the loss of life from this virus, it’s just that my feeling is because there is nothing there for the med pros to pinpoint their response never gains a diagnosis or treatment and so we are bundled out the door left to fend for ourselves.

    The image you placed on your last posting in reply to mine are the type of ulcers I get on the gums (both upper and lower gums – and they hurt) nowadays and are never on the roof of the mouth. The few spots on the roof of my mouth remain there after my mouth blistered when I first became ill and are alike those you describe in your symptoms list. Visible and not painful and on Merck alike you describe are either Herpes related or a blood infection – I am genital herpes clean and believe this relates to the virus/infection I describe.

    So please don’t think that I am not taking all this serious as it’s bad stuff. The contact stomach rumbling, nerve twitching and crawling says it all. And let’s not forget the stomach pains .

    Thanks again for your comms and as usual I hope it continues until we all get somewhere.

    NeilW

    REPLY: No, you are absolutely right. Being “bundled out the door left to fend for ourselves” is more or less what happens, and has been happening for a long time now with people that have CFS/ME. The problem with viruses like coxsackievirus B is that after the initial prodrome, they change tactics, and kind of become invisible, so they are very hard test for, and this often leaves medics with nothing to go on.

    The 4 people concerned were sort of friends of friends of friends, and so these were not people in my social circle. But what is important is that this again supports the coxsackievirus B theory. I have seen papers dating back to the 1970s implicating coxsackievirus B in sudden heart attack. – Hip

  61. Cat Says:

    I am shocked to think this may be the case.. I have had the sore throat for some years and after having my tonsils removed 10 years ago did not improve. At present it is very painful. My stomach problems with bloating and burning is unbearable and joint pain so I cannot even walk out with the family. All the later symptons of hearing loss and skin changes also ring true. Please let me know if there is anything to take for the sore throat

    REPLY: Hi Cat. You can try peppermint oil capsules, three times a day. Peppermint oil is a good antiviral oil, and often works well for this type of sore throat. (I mean the peppermint oil capsules that you swallow, not peppermint sweets or lozenges). – Hip

  62. Paul Says:

    I examined my nails real good…and guess what? Vertical ridges. now I don’t know how long they have been like that all i know is that the ridges are there.

  63. Paul Says:

    Hi,

    Everyday that goes by it seems like i have another symptom that pops up. I mentioned the nail ridges even though I never looked that closely at my nails before.

    Now just today I noticed alot of tiny pink pink spots , some on my torso a few on my arms about 30 altogether . They are very tiny like a pen dot maybe smaller, not raised almost under the skin. I noticed too that my skin is dryer than normal too.

    REPLY: Do you also have a redding of the skin around top of the chest, near the neck area? I have this. Mine looks a little bit like the suntan-reddening of the skin you would get from wearing a V-neck shirt in the summer sun, but in fact it is not caused by sun burning, but by this virus. I have seen this same strange red chest in several people with this virus. This red skin has an usual mildly waxy/greasy feel to the touch, which obviously a normal suntan does not have.

    One condition that produces these kind of red skin symptoms (along with symptoms of hip-leg weakness) is: dermatomyositis. Dermatomyositis is thought to be caused by coxsackievirus B, enterovirus, and parvovirus B19 infections. Both dermatomyositis, and the similar condition of polymyositis, weaken the muscles, starting with the thigh and hip muscles, but then progressing to all the proximal muscles (proximal muscles = the muscles in the central part of the body, from hips to shoulders).

    Here is a picture of the chest of someone with advanced dermatomyositis. – Hip

  64. Dave Says:

    I think I have one of those viruses. Not sure if its bacterial but it is persistent and chronic with three weeks out of every month. It happened a few years ago after protected sex with this girl. A week later my tonsils blew up and were all white and gross. Antibiotics didn’t help. Then when it went away I had a gag like feeling in my throat, acid reflux, pain in sinuses and throat, frequent cough (during allergy season), and now bumps on my throat. No fatigue but just anxiety and depression. Last year tested negative for HIV (even did an RNA test) and T-lymp count normal. Everyone thinks I’m crazy and that its probably dust mites from my dogs or mold but I am freaking out!

  65. Sue Says:

    I’m interested to read these replies. I went on the internet tonight wondering if there were other people out there who kept on getting a sore throat and couldn’t get without it.

    I have many of the symptoms discussed. I was even treated with Cypro (one of the fleuro set) for a UTI. I was treated with it repeatedly because the infection kept returning. But I think my immune system was low. I used to be super healthy and fit, then one day nine years ago caught a terrible sort of flu that was the worst I have ever known. I got over it in about three weeks, but it left me weak.

    I managed to get on with my life, but from time to time went down with a sore throat and weakness, always feeling tired. I went to the Post Office one day and said to the guy who works there, `I keep on havin this sore throat.’ He said to me, `So do I. I got a flu about a year ago and I think it’s living in my system. I always know when it’s about to have a go because my tongue swells and tingles.’ I had exactly the same symptoms, and nine years later remember his words.

    I think stress brings it out, like a fly on a spider’s web. I left my husband after years of unhappiness but found the stress of my new circumstances difficult to deal with. My grown-up children didn’t react as I’d hoped for. They were not strong. (There is never a good time to break up a family, even if you are dying in the marriage it seems!) I kept on getting cystitis, which I had often been prone to but could attack with an antibiotic. Repeated attacks though because I was so stressed out meant repeated doses of fleuros.

    Then my mother died and I didn’t know how to cope with the grief. I had never been so miserable in my life. One day I found I couldn’t even get out of bed. My muscles wouldn’t work and I felt sick. I thought I had multiple schlerosis or some other terrible illness. It continued for over a week. I went for blood tests. Nothing. My doctor sent me to the hospital to see a consultant. He said there was nothing wrong with me and that I had fibromyalgia, talking as if fibromyalgia might be something imaginary. I didn’t know what it was, but think it might be the same as ME and similar to what you are talking about on this site.

    Always the sore throat keeps recurring whatever I do and I am now on a prophylactic (spelling?) of one Cefaclor per day to keep cystitis at bay. I tried to do without it and lasted two months but then further stress entered my life and I got it again. Now I have the sore throat again and have had it two weeks, hence my finding this site.

    I feel that stress is the culprit. First a bad virus infection, then stress which doesn’t let you win and brings the spider out of its den to do its mischief. I have given in to it I’m afraid after years of weeping and distress. I find I’m forgetting things too, but I think that’s because if you have this syndrome you are preoccupied with it so can’t pay attention to your life. You do get very depressed and anxious and feel different from other people. I am sometimes unduly angry and don’t like to bother my children on the phone if they ask how I am. I am tired but finding sleeping difficult sometimes because worries crowd out my head.

    The business of depersonalisation is a very real phenomena and can sometimes be frightening and make you say silly things you would normally not say, because you don’t think straight. After a while you begin to live with whatever it is that has you, literally by the throat.

    Sue

    REPLY: Thanks for your comment, Sue. At least your doctor recognized some of your symptoms: noting that you have fibromyalgia, which is very similar and overlaps chronic fatigue syndrome and myalgic encephalomyelitis.

    But is is high time that we developed a cure for these diseases, so that people don’t have to live in this misery. – Hip

  66. Edward Says:

    Has anyone seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-871tHE4jzg

    I am curious what do you think of it.

    Take care you all,

    Edward

    REPLY: Many thanks, Edward. It is very interesting. The original source of this news article appears to be from a Chinese-run television broadcaster ntdtv.com, based in New York.

    I cannot find any more medical details about this possible new infectious disease, other than that it has been called Fear of AIDS Disease, it is spread via saliva (like my virus) so it spreads in families (also like my virus), and that this possible new disease has the symptoms: fatigue, chronic diarrhea, swollen lymph nodes, and weakened immunity.

    I have not seen anyone with my virus develop a chronic diarrhea symptoms, so I don’t think this is what I have. – Hip

  67. Asklepius Says:

    i wouldn’t be too quick to discount this. i, for starters, have chronic diarrhea depending on my diet.
    but what of this ‘lower number of immunity cells’? do we suffer from that?

  68. gill Says:

    My daughter has been suffering from chronic sore throat since she was 6years old, now she 16. I have noticed the psychological changes in her, gatrointestnal , eyesight problems like you described.

    REPLY: Thanks for your comment. – Hip

  69. NeilW Says:

    Hi Paul,

    Are you still out there?
    How are things with you… and all your symptoms..etc..

    NeilW

  70. Anonymous Says:

    I think you are all Mad. Who here has a PhD?

    REPLY: Had you read the data on this page carefully, you would know the answer. Do your groundwork before you engage your typing fingers. – Hip

  71. NeilW Says:

    Sorry to say, I have met people like “Anonymous” before and there is only ever 1 reason why people like that engage their fingers. Rarely is their input of any benefit.

  72. jackie Says:

    Well said Neil,

    As if we wanted to be sick and pass it on to others. People like that have no idea of others suffering and no idea of what they are talking about.
    Jac

  73. gg Says:

    I have a 1 question for you Mr $2 PhD.

    Q:1) Why is it that when u describe your symptoms to doctors they don’t even know what tests to run in order to diagnose your condition?
    ANS:1) The whole medical system is designed to save money not lives. Hence we have a whole stack of people wandering what is wrong with them.

  74. Isabelle Says:

    Hi, I was looking up chronic sore throat because I have had a sore throat for 6 weeks now, I do not have the mucus nose though, but when I look at the back of my throat my soft palate looks red to me on one side of the arch by the back of the tongue but does not look inflamed. I went to see 3 doctors and they said that it looks like just normal throat tisue and because I never looked at my throat before I have nothing yo compare it to. What I am worried about though is that you said it can spread to family members. I live with my 22 year old daughter and Im really scared now that if I have this virus that she will catch it. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening? Thank you, Isabelle

    REPLY: I would not worry unduly, as you probably have something different to this virus. But just to answer your question, I speculate my virus is sometimes transmitted when eating across the table from someone else, as during conversation, spittle from your mouth can land on their food, and therefore get conveyed into the their throat. Apart from that, just the usual washing of hands after blowing your nose, and after coughing into your hand, should do a lot to stop the spread of what you have. Hope this helps. – Hip

  75. David Says:

    I did a search for constant sore throat and found this information. A lot of the symptoms seem familiar and I probably have it too. Is there anything I can do about it? I also had open heart surgery a year ago (5 by-passes)

  76. Adam Says:

    My mother is a naturopathic doctor, she recommended that I try this detox therapy. It’s called an HCL solution (hydrochloride) and when taken combined with potassium and other mineral salts it supposedly helps break down viral infections.

    What I do is pour the powdery contents of two kinds of HCL capsules in water. when they mix they become active for a time. I drink it three time a day, increasing dosage every week for a month. It works against viruses throughout the entire body.

    What it’s supposed to do is attack biofilm sacs that surround virus clusters, breaking them open and allowing the immune system to kill the viruses that previously couldn’t be reached.

    I’ve been taking it for one week, the blisters near my tonsillectomy scars have begun to recede, and the same area in the back of the mouth that was always sore and red has begun to return to normal. I’ll post again later to report if it worked, how well it worked in the end and if the symptoms came back.

    It’s not fun to drink but it seems to be doing SOMETHING.

    REPLY: Thanks Adam. It sounds very interesting – do you have the name of the product you are using? When yo say HCl, do you mean hydrochloric acid supplements (like the betaine HCl stomach acid substitute)? I would be interested to know the full ingredients.

    Note that viruses are not known to create biofilms, only bacteria and fungii, but many people with viral chronic fatigue do have co-existing pathogenic bacterial infections, so anything that works is useful. Many thanks. – Hip

  77. Asklepius Says:

    A question to those with the numbness/tingling in feet & hands:
    How have your symptoms progressed?

    I have had a nasty migraine (not a regular headache) for about a month along with numbness and lack of muscle response in my hands, feet, and face.

    Anyone else experiencing this?

    REPLY: I checked just now, and apparently, migraine headaches are unfortunately another symptom that can occur in CFS and fibromyalgia.
    - Hip

  78. Adam Says:

    Hip – The specific product is Premier Research Labs’ Quantum Betaine HCL and Quantum HCL Activator (potassium complex).

    According to my doctor/mother and the information sheet that goes with the supplements, it’s designed to kill VIRUSES specifically. Bacterial cleansing would be incidental.

    REPLY: Looking at the ingredients of the “activator”, this certainly contains many antiviral herbs and substances, such as curcumin, quercetin, oregano, Isoflavones, pine bark and royal jelly, which should help in keeping the virus under control.

    The betaine HCl will not only increase stomach acid levels (which are often low in CFS) and thus improve digestion, but also it will increase your methylation cycle (methylation is often quite feeble in CFS). – Hip

  79. david Says:

    I am begining to think my problem is one part dog allergy and one part stress and part alcohol excess usage…

  80. Paul Says:

    I have a question.

    If I believe what I have is bacterial in nature and not viral. How would I go about finding out if it is indeed bacterial?

    REPLY: When you go to your doctor an get a regular throat swab, that is exactly what they are checking for: bacteria. – Hip

  81. barbara lueck Says:

    Wow these symptoms sound just like everything I’m feeling. Been to Dr’s twice on this issue of having sore throat that won’t go away-first got prescribed antibiotics then went to a ENT and he did some kind of test called laryngoscopy-nothing found that was wrong. Then I’m thinking menopause because of alot of the same symtoms exist except for the sore throat. Really with I knew for sure

  82. David Says:

    Is the average doctor familiar with this or do I need to tell him about my self-diagnosis based on information that I got from this site? I am planning to go see a doctor about this soon. Thanks!

    Dave

    REPLY: A lot of doctors don’t like it if you “jump the gun” and come in with a diagnosis of your own, so it can be better to first give all your symptoms, and hope that they come to the same diagnosis themselves. In other words, instead of saying “Doc, I think I have chronic fatigue syndrome”, say instead “I am feeling unbelievably tired, I have a constant sore throat, all my lymph nodes are swollen, I cannot concentrate on anything, my memory is disintegrating, I am becoming more confused and foggy mentally, I have muscle aches, tinnitus, blurred vision, etc”. Just list all your symptoms accurately, and hope that your doctor is familiar with chronic fatigue syndrome (many are unfamiliar with CFS, or tend to discount it).

    As yet there is no established laboratory test for CFS, so CFS is generally diagnosed by symptoms. After hearing what he has to say about your symptoms, and listening to his suggestions (remember that fatigue may be caused by many things, so it may be that you don’t have CFS anyway, but something else), then then ask your doctor if he thinks you could have CFS.

    The alternative is to find, or asked to be referred to, a doctor who specializes in CFS, and they will be more likely to provide an accurate diagnosis, as any specialist will.

    Let us know how you got on! – Hip

  83. mark1 Says:

    To CAT,
    Cat I feel for you, you had sore throat for years, I had for only 1 year and its like hard to talk coz makes it worst, when i dont talk feels better but any physical activities or even eating makes it worst. I believe I always had issue with throat, like every few years when stress I would start having dry cough for months but never sore throat like that for year. My syndrome is CFS and totally disregulated endrocynology, immune, central nerbouse system etc. When they dont work well together nothing works well in your body, including latent viruses, bacteria becoming active etc. My fatigue improved 20% from 5 months ago. I almost have no pain in back, muscles, joins etc, somehow went away but man that sore throat i cant get rid off, its not like the worst soe throat you ever had but its like 20% always there, and some moucus especially aggrivates when talking, so it sucks most of the the day i dont talk.

    she wrote”Cat Says:
    July 21, 2009 at 12:24 pm
    I am shocked to think this may be the case.. I have had the sore throat for some years and after having my tonsils removed 10 years ago did not improve. At present it is very painful. My stomach problems with bloating and burning is unbearable and joint pain so I cannot even walk out with the family. All the later symptons of hearing loss and skin changes also ring true. Please let me know if there is anything to take for the sore throat

  84. David Says:

    Thanks for the information Hip. My family doctor is a bit arrogant at the best of times. A couple years ago, he got quite rude about a health issue I told him I heard about via the internet. Then again, maybe I should find a doctor with a better attitude. I can only imagine his reaction if I tell him about this site and a possible diagnosis of my problem. Like you said, I should make a list of my problems and get a doctor’s reaction. I had 5 heart by-passes done 11 months ago and wonder if that could be responsible for any of my other problems. I have been healthy for the better part of my life and now at 57 starting to have health problems. Now that my heart seems to be in order, it is time to make decisions on what to do about this sore throat and other conditions. I will keep you posted – thanks again !

    Dave

  85. NeilW Says:

    Hi,

    Paul if you should get anywhere with your bacteria search it would be good to hear your findings.

    Like many of us, I have been searching the internet and have in my time come across numerous possibilities and another find has been the Adenovirus.

    NeilW

    REPLY: Adenoviruses are common and have very similar gastrointestinal symptoms to those that people are experiencing here, and have a very fast incubation period. But adenoviruses don’t seem to attack the brain and nervous system, so it is hard to see how they could account for the cognitive symptoms. Also, adenovirus infections are not generally found in CFS/ME patients, and since may of us here fall under this CFS/ME diagnosis, it is again hard to see how adenovirus could be involved. But it is always good to have an open mind.

    Adenovirus-36 has been linked to weight gain: AD-36 is present in 30% of obese people, but only found in 11% of non-obese people. AD-36 induces obesity by inserting ones of its viral genes into the nucleus of human cells. Once this gene is inside the nucleus, it unfortunately turns on the cell’s fat-producing enzymes and also instigates the birth many of new fat cells (adipocytes), thus promoting obesity disorder.

    – Hip

  86. Hip Says:

    I have just updated this blog with a paragraph of some interesting information about the cover-up that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has masterminded for the last few decades. This affects everyone here, because the CDC exerts a lot of influence in countries right around the world.

    See here: CDC Scandal.

  87. Heather Says:

    Hi,
    I am in the U.K and i work as a paediatric nurse on a busy medical ward specialising in haematology. We regularly have chidren with sickle cell anaemia admitted in crisis. Last September/October anumber of such children where admitted in crisis and as is usual bloods were taken, we were not informed on the ward exactly what they were being tested for, I became unwell early in October with flu like symptoms, I did not have the upper respiratory tract symptoms, but my joints were that sore and it hurt even to move my eyes, the symptoms began on a Thursday and by Sunday I collapsed in work i was that ill. The Dr felt it could be flu so was sent home with the usual pain relief, the pains in my knees was so bad I couldn’t sleep at night, by Wednesday I developed a rash on my face and upper body which rapidly spread to the rest of my body and joined up into a lacy pattern, the lymph nodes in my neck were like golf balls as they were under my arms and in my groin. At first the Dr said he thought it was Rubella, but I though otherwise as I remembered having it as a child. The pain in my joints spread to my fingers and hands, my wrists and feet and my knees went worse. By the end of the week my husband had to call an ambulance as I could not move, my fingers had swelled to twice the size as had my knees and all my joints were swollen, the rash was very angry covered me completely. The hospital admitted me to the infectious diseases unit, they performed a lumbar puncture amongst other various tests and i was diagnosed with Parvovirus B19. Whilst I was on the unit I learnt that the sickle cell children on the ward had also tested positive for the same. I was initially off work for 4 months then returned at reduced hours and duties. I continued to feel continually unwell, exhaustion, arthralgia, lymphadenopathy, blistered tongue and lips, problems with memory, insomnia, blurred vision and depression are just a few I can list. I went back to see the immunology Dr last week as my lymph nodes keep popping up and down and on continual blood tests my IgM levels are elevated as is my CRP I am also rheumatiod factor positive. The immunology Dr diagnosed me with M.E and a previous rheumatologist diagnosed me with fibromyalgia. I did asl about the chance that the parvovirus could still be in my system he said was a possibilty but was as rare as “hen’s teeth” in someone who is not immunosupressed, well someone who has never been diagnosed as such anyway. This was last week on Thursday and he said I am to start a treatment programme for the M.E. He telephoned me at home on the following Monday to say I should have blood PCR test done just to check as he had been discussing my case with his collegues. I am awaiting the results at present. If still positive he said I will be treated with immunoglobulins. I was a bit confused as I got the impression that I would be treated as 1 or the other, but not both. You seem to suggest that even if I have the parvo in my system still and it’s treated then the M.E will remain. I’m just anxious I suppose and want to feel better. Would be grateful for any advice offered, Thanks Heather

    REPLY: Hi Heather. The difference between chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia is slight (some people say these are more or less the same disease), so both your immunologist and rheumatologist are saying similar things. These diseases are though to be caused by viruses such as enterovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 or parvovirus B19 that linger at a low-level of infection indefinitely in certain people.

    Chronic fatigue syndrome, when it is caused by parvovirus B19, is quite treatable in many cases, using intravenous immunoglobulins (IVIG). These immunoglobulin antibodies quiet down the viral infection until it is brought under control, and after that you own immune system will keep it in check, all being well, and it will never return.

    Sometimes, however, people can get relapses several years later, especially when under very heavy physical workload/stress, etc. But let us hope that you do not, in which case you would be clear of CFS. About 50% of the adult population have parvovirus B19 in their system in a latent, dormant state, so having this virus is nothing to be concerned with.

    Not all cases of CFS are as treatable, as some viral infections are more difficult to eliminate.

    I must say it is quite rare to be relatively quickly diagnosed with CFS/fibromyalgia, and then lined up for treatment straight away. This is quite encouraging, as very often, doctors do not recognize or CFS when they see it (because the symptoms are difficult to observe sometimes).

    Please let us know your blood PCR test results, and whether you are going in for the intravenous immunoglobulins, and if this then clears up the problem. Best of luck.

    – Hip

  88. lyl iav Says:

    I am totally freaked out now. I have not just a few of the above-mentioned symptoms, but ALL of them.

    The problem started with a sore throat that just would not go away. It takes 6 months to see the ENT specialist here in Canada, let alone a gastroenterologist, a gynecologist, a pain specialist and so on.

    So for the last several years I have been seeing a lot of specialists. Not one has looked at the entire picture of symptoms. Not even my GP.

    I know right now that no doctor in Canada would order up the tests that would recognize a virus because that would entail costly treatments. (Those of you in the US are often looking north at our “free medical” system. It looks good on paper but most seriously ill people die before diagnosis and costly treatment. My husband would have died twice already except some of the time some symptoms flared up while he was in the States and so was diagnosed, whereas in Canada no problems could be “found”.)

    My question is where do I start? What tests could I go south for? Once a correct diagnosis has been made I will get treatment in Canada. The problem here is the willingness to diagnose.

    REPLY: Thanks for posting. You need to see if you can find a doctor who specializes in chronic fatigue syndrome (myalgic encephalomyelitis), as only these specialists are likely to diagnose you correctly, if this is what you have, which it certainly sounds like.

    Many doctors are not that familiar with CFS; and some do not really believe it exists, or see it as a controversial diagnosis.

    I also went to various specialists, but this does not really help. The most relevant specialist would be an infectious disease professional. But even here, many of these are not trained to diagnose or deal with the lingering infections of CFS. Infectious disease specialists may test for bacterial and other infections that can cause similar symptoms (such as toxoplasma) which are treatable. Generally, they do not do viral testing.

    Treatments for CFS/ME are still in their infancy, and depend on which virus you have. There is a good possibility that the virus causing your symptoms is an enterovirus. Enteroviruses (in the chronic lingering state) are some of the most difficult viruses to test for, as well as treat. See the enterovirus section above on this page for the info on specialist enterovirus tests.

    CFS/ME can also be caused by viruses such as Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 or parvovirus B19. You should get a blood test for these, if only to rule them out. Compared to enterovirus, these three are relatively easy to test for, and can be done quite cheaply in a private lab via a blood sample. Let us know how go get on with this.

    – Hip

  89. dave Says:

    That bit on Flouride causing problems I really don’t know how to comment on. I’m in the dental field and I was trained not to believe the hype, but with my recent throat problem I am inclined to believe that it workplace related. I wonder how much mercury vapor I breathe per day?

  90. Wes Says:

    Wow… I… wow.

    I’m 18, living in the States, and my case of this… mysterious thing started about two years ago.

    I had a very bad sore throat, along with tonsil inflammation. Antibiotics didn’t do anything, neither did acid reflux treatments (go figure on that one) so they took out my tonsils. And it didn’t help.

    I’m experiencing every one of the “Early” and “Additional” symptoms, save the pins and needles. My memory is considerably worse than any of my friends, whom I seem to have no desire to hang out with anymore. I’m constantly depressed, and I have zero drive to do anything. My grades went from straight As and Bs to Cs and Ds. My girlfriend has noticed that I want to do less and less, and the horrible thing is, she’s got it now too.

    The thing that drove me to search for answers has been her case. She used to be the happiest, most outgoing person I had ever met, and I’m not exaggerating. She did it all, sports, job, yearbook, Honors, even planning a trip to France with some of her classmates. And as her condition (also diagnosed as tonsillitis) has gotten worse, all she wants to do is sit around and be miserable. She’s retreating from her friends, her schoolwork, everything she’s worked so hard for, and it tears my heart in two having to watch it develop and feeling so helpless.

    And recently, an ex-girlfriend of mine started dating a friend of mine. He promptly got tonsillitis as well, but “oddly,” nothing seems to be clearing it up. He got fired from his job two weeks ago for not showing up.

    It’s getting very frightening. Me and my friends are in college, I can’t imagine a worse time to catch an untreatable apathy virus. Please, if anyone knows what I should do, Help!!

    REPLY: Hi Wes. You really articulate well the full impact that this virus has not only on one individual, but all the people around them too. I caught this virus in 2003, so there is nothing acutely frightening about it, other than it now six years later, and its apathy effects and other symptoms are still there in full force.

    If this is a new virus, or more likely, a potent new variant of an existing virus (such as a new strain of enterovirus/coxsackievirus B), it may take some time before its symptoms and particular pathology become generally recognized by the medical community. An examination of this virus will need to be done by highly motivated medical researches, not by your local doctor, who usually will show very little interest in something unusual like this.

    If you do find out anything, please let us all know. There are many here with exactly the same symptoms.

    The general condition that this virus creates is akin to chronic fatigue syndrome, so some of the complementary treatments for CFS may help. People here have tried quite a few of them.

    – Hip

  91. mark1 Says:

    Hay Hip, I wrote here few times. Chronic sore throat, etc.
    Its been a year now and I started noticing some lose in my joint and elbow wrist, les appetite so losing little weight etc. This thing really sucks! I will see Dr Chia sept 30th. See what he will say. My case is defin. viral infection. Antibiotics no help.

    REPLY: HI Mark. Nice to hear from you.

    Hopefully Dr Chia will have the answer when you visit him. Perhaps he will give you interferon, which has cured many people.

    After treatment, the CFS symptoms sometimes come back if you do lots of heavy, prolonged physical exercise. So take it easy. But many people have gone for more than 2 years after having the interferon cure, and are still symptom-free.

    – Hip

  92. mark1 Says:

    Hip, what do you do with your case? Have you seen specialists? are you going to see any drs? I read that Dr Cheney just recently did pilot study on ppl with ME/CFS/CFIDS whatever name and so far all patients I think like 30 had great sucess and only 3 months after this stem-cell treatment. They were I believe adults stem-cells from healthy donors(no HIV, no HH6V etc)

    http://cheneyclinic.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome/treatment

    This is his clinic in Panama where he took his patients:
    http://medisteminc.com/board.html

    REPLY: Very interesting links!

    I did not know that Dr Cheney had treated chronic fatigue syndrome patients with stem cells. I have updated this blog’s CFS treatments page with this new information. Many thanks.

    I have not seen many specialists, but combine most of the CFS treatment protocols that these doctors have developed, such as taking: intranasal vitamin B12, transdermal magnesium, vitamin B3, malic acid (usual in the form of magnesium malate), co-enzyme Q10, tribulus terrestris (a body-building herb that boosts testosterone), L-carnitine, pregnenolone hormone tablets, ginseng, evening primrose oil, N-acetyl cysteine, and many others.

    It does make a big difference when you take all these. I am considering getting the double interferon therapy at some point in the future. This seems like a good treatment: if you are one of the lucky ones, you will not have a relapse for several years, and maybe longer.

    – Hip

  93. mark1 Says:

    Hip I just read that Dr Chia does not do interferon therapy anymore, check out the link:
    http://www.aboutmecfs.org/blog/?p=814

    REPLY: Amazing! Things move fast.

    So interferon therapy is not on the menu anymore. I must admit, the side effects of interferon did not look that nice (it can worsen depression, and increase the intensity of your CFS symptoms whilst you are on interferon, which can be for months).

    OXYMATRINE THERAPY

    In comparison, the oxymatrine therapy has no side effects for most people, it is very cheap, and you can do it yourself. So perhaps this is the better option anyway.

    I bought some oxymatrine a while ago on the Internet, but stopped taking it after hearing about the possible impurities in it.

    The web link you gave above claims that Dr Chia’s own pharmaceutical grade 100% pure oxymatrine is called “Equilibrant“.

    And…. I just now found Dr Chia’s Equilibrant Oxymatrine for Sale Online.

    It would appear that you need to take 1 to 3 Equilibrant tablets a day (start with one, and if there is no increase in existing symptoms, the dose can be increased to 2 tablets a day (1 every 12 hours). You then slowly work up to 3 tablets daily, spaced out over the day.

    Dr Chia’s Equilibrant oxymatrine costs $ 49.95 for 90 tablets.

    If anyone wants to buy another brand oxymatrine online, the herb it comes from is called Sophora Root or Ku Shen herb. It is available at online here: 1, 2, 3, 4. The purity of these is not know, however.

    Oxymatrine often seems to be sold in 1100 mg herbal tablets, each containing 220 mg of oxymatrine.

    I cannot find the oxymatrine dosage regime used by Dr Chia at the moment, but elsewhere online, I found that the general recommend dose is: oxymatrine 300 mg twice, or perhaps three times a day. NOTE: Oxymatrine can make you feel sick if you don’t take it with food, so it is best taken 15 minutes after meals.

    Note: Sophora Root (Ku Shen) herb in its natural form contains 2% oxymatrine. You can find for sale Sophora Root (Ku Shen) 5:1 extract, which is a powdered herb that contains 10% oxymatrine. So to get 300 mg of oxymatrine, you need to take 3 grams of the 5:1 extract of Sophora Root. But the 220 mg tablet form of may be easier (especially as the powdered herb does not taste good!).

    It is interesting that oxymatrine acts as an immunomodulatory drug, and shifts the immune system from its Th2 mode to its Th1 mode.

    Th1 is the intracellular (or cell-mediated) immune response, designed to kill viruses and other intracellular microbes located inside our cells. Th2 is the extracellular (or humoral) immune response, designed to kill bacteria and other extracellular microbes located outside of our cells, such as in the blood.

    People with CFS / fibromyalgia have immune systems that are often imbalanced towards the Th2 side. Oxymatrine works for thee people by moving the balance back towards Th1

    – Hip

  94. mark1 Says:

    Well said Hip, Im Th2 activated. How do I know it? Few things:
    1. Test Interleukine-12 =5 (normal range 25-200) this cytokine fights inside the cell all pathogens
    2. My interleukine-10 was perfectly on normal level 8 (normal range (5-10)
    3. I dont get any new illness from outside the world so far, no new flus, etc. it seems like my immune system is overreacting to anything from outside, even when I touch my skin anywhere in the body little harder after few seconds becomes very red, like cytokines rspidly rashing to that area thing something is attacking it.
    3. All old pathogens viruses specifically, EBV,HSV, Coxsakie etc have hihg IgG leveles meaning re-activation so it seems like no IL-12 to fight them off, this means chronic sore throat etc.

    REPLY: It is very common for people with CFS to get less colds. I think I have had about only one cold in the last five years.

    Here is a good diagram showing how the cytokine IL-12 causes Th2 cells to be produced, and conversely, how the cytokine IL-4 causes Th1 cells to be produced.

    In this diagram, note that it is the Th0 cell that is the start of the split. This T helper cell 0 is either converted to a Th1 or a Th2 cell, depending on the levels of IL-12 and IL-4 cytokines. So that is how the immune system’s “army” is created: IL-12 and IL-4 direct the immune response either to create Th1 cells (for attacking viruses) or to create Th2 cells (for attacking bacteria). Other cytokines can also alter the Th1/Th2 balance: for example, IL-10 inhibits the production of IL-12, so as a result, IL-10 will shift the balance towards making more Th2 cells.

    Unfortunately, many viruses, such as EBV, CMV and HSV can actually generate their own “counterfeit” version of IL-10 once in our bodies, in order to switch off the production of Th1 cells of our immune system (because the Th1 cells attack viruses). This is just one strategy these viruses employ to avoid being attacked by the immune system. This trickery is very cunning for viruses, but bad news for us humans.

    - Hip

  95. mark1 Says:

    It’s been a year since i had this and especially last 4 months I dont have much appetite lost in 6 mnths 10 lbs. I guess its normal when you have all those viruses runing around im still 190lbs and 6.1 but i dont want to loose much more. how to gain weight is the question, funny many ppl especially women would like to have that problem but guy dont like to lose too much weight. Hip , in your course of this ilness did you weight fluctuate or lost more or gain weight, I read some ppl gain round belly but lose muscles etc nd overl lose weight coz muscle are much thicker and heavier.

    REPLY: I also lost my appetite for a long time. I also lost most of my sense of smell for about two or three years, so food tasted very boring and dull (much of the taste sensation comes from your sense of smell). So my loss of hunger, added to a loss of taste, made eating food actually an big effort, rather than a pleasure.

    But even though I was eating less through low appetite, paradoxically I gained weight (fat) on my lower abdomen (and increased my waist by one trouser size). Recently, my appetite is getting better, and the weight gained on my belly is slowly going away, which is good.

    But in CFS, some people gain weight, and other people lose weight. It is random.

    I know many people who, after they caught this virus, underwent significant changes of eating habits. Some people could no longer eat meat, so became semi-vegetarian. I was the reverse: I found that I disliked vegetables more and more, and preferred to eat heavy meat (whereas previously I always loved fruit and vegetables).

    All in all, this virus does affect taste, appetite and body weight quite noticeably.

    – Hip

  96. Asklepius Says:

    There is an interesting thread about Dr Chia’s herbal treatment at:

    http://www.chronicfatiguetreatments.com/wordpress/treatments/iv-gamma-globulin-for-chronic-fatigue-and-fibromyalgia/

    There, some say that it is called “Marine Tablets” (not to be confused with oxymatrine).
    A little while back I tried two different brands of ku shen powder (for tea) and also a so-called oxymatrine tablet. I found it to be extremely bitter with no negative side effects, but I’m not sure if I had any noticeable improvement with it (this might just be a lack of purity in the product that I purchased).
    When I first became sick with this infection I was 210 lbs and became gluten intolerant (a LOT of GI distress). Now, a couple years later I struggle to keep my weight up at 150 lbs.

    REPLY: Thanks for that Asklepius. They made a mistake, as it should have said Matrine (with a T). Matrine is very similar to oxymatrine.

    I have just sent off for some oxymatrine tablets at 220 mg each. I will take one every eight hours (three a day), and see what happens. I think you need to do this for a month or two before you get any results.

    It might be good to augment these oxymatrine tablets with some other supplement that also boost Th1 immunity, to increase the efficacy. Such Th1 boosting supplements include: the antihistamine cetirizine, inosine, neem herb, pine cone, vitamin E, chlorella, garlic, astragalus herb, IP6 (inositol hexaphosphate), low-dose Naltrexone (a drug – the optimal dose is 4.5 mg a day before bed), zinc, rice bran, beta glucans, silica, glutamine, and glutathione. Melatonin also boosts Th1, but is a type of natural sleeping tablet, so must be taken before bed (it is usually very good for people with sleeping problems caused by their CFS).

    – Hip

  97. NeilW Says:

    Hi Hip,

    Thanks for your posting on my recent web searches, which goes to prove just how obsessed I am in trying to discover whatever it is I, or we have. And that posting was probably me going round in circles again as Theiler’s virus-induced demyelination MHV sounds like what I have, but isn’t as it’s rodent related and I am no rat or hamster.

    I also visit these 2 sites as both are pretty informative for symptoms explanations.
    http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec06/ch092/ch092c.html – this page lists enteroviruses as a cause which says something.
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/demyelinating-disease/AN00564

    Another question I have is how long do you think you had the virus until you made your self diagnosis, as I am looking at timescales here. As my big fear is whether the neuropathy will make me unable to walk.. as at the moment I am just unsteady and wonder what will be next ??? As the PN is constant. How did you strike all the likely causes off your list..

    Anyway, regardless of what numskuill anonymous/gg had to post I am always happy to read your replies. Just like everybody else on this blog/site.

    All the Best,

    NeilW

    REPLY: I got it in 2003. Muscle weakness is now more or less stabilized. I am still not sure whether the muscle slackness is due to connective tissue weakness in the ligaments, or a neuro-muscular problem (or both). Usually if it is a neuro-muscular cause, the level of weakness will fluctuate from day to day. But mine never fluctuates, suggesting it might just be the ligaments being weakened (by elastase or MMP-9).

    I went to see a neurologist, who did not help that much, but did say quite conclusively that in his opinion it was not multiple sclerosis that I had, which was one thing that did occur to me. So at least MS was ruled out. I would suggest you also go to see a neurologist. You can only try.

    For the pins and needles, try taking N-ACETYL-CYSTEINE (available in most vitamin shops) at a dose of 500 mg twice daily. This is a good natural antiviral, it also boosts the detox system of your liver, and in addition helps your body make glutathione, which is one of the master anti-oxidants of the body.

    I went on a long learning curve to try to understand the basics of infectious diseases, the immune system, the characteristics of various viruses and bacteria, and the complex disease of CFS/ME. It is hard to read about all this when you memory and concentration are going, but I find it helps me keep hopeful.

    – Hip

  98. unbelievable Says:

    Hip have u done the “Natural Killer Cell Function Assay” test and if so was it conclusive….

    REPLY: Not yet, but I may do this at some point.

    – Hip

  99. unbelievable Says:

    Nice even triclosan in toothpaste is cancerous, and a neurotoxin.
    http://www.health-report.co.uk/triclosan.html

  100. unbelievable Says:

    Beta Glucan might also be good in helping the immune system. Just found this book HIP:

    Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, and Lyme Disease By Burton Goldberg, Larry Trivieri

    REPLY: Looks like a very good book – clearly laid out, concise explanations, and giving lots of things you can do to improve your condition.

    Beta Glucans seems like it helps with fungal co-infections, which many people with CFS/ME have.

    – Hip

  101. Phooph Says:

    CFS and magnesium deficiency
    http://tinyurl.com/ndh3m9

    The topically applied version said to be best used by the body is sold on line in several places.

    REPLY: Thanks Phooph. Personally I take transdermal magnesium all the time. You cannot get enough magnesium by the oral route: you can take take say 500 mg of magnesium by mouth daily, but go much over that dosage, and you will find it causes diarrhea. This is why you need to also take transdermal magnesium. Highly recommend.

    But I find these magnesium oils for sale are very expensive for what they are. It is much cheaper to buy some Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) from the pharmacy, which costs very little (perhaps $2), make up a VERY strong solution of these salts in tap water (or distilled water is even better), and rub just a tablespoon or two of this water on you skin every day,and let it dry. If this stings on the skin, then just dilute your solution a bit with fresh water until it does not sting.

    This transdermal magnesium sulfate remedy is given very frequently to autistic children, who seem to benefit from it. High dose magnesium is one of the most powerful natural anti-anxiety supplements.

    – Hip

  102. wasabi Says:

    I am celiac (self-diagnosed at age 50), so my immune system is messed up. I have had mono, herpes zoster (Ramsay Hunt syndrome), and now perhaps this sore throat virus. I have tried many supplements over the years and what I am doing now seems to be working pretty well.

  103. wasabi Says:

    Like the coxsackie virus, the polio virus is also an enterovirus. There are two treatments that seem to have worked against the polio virus. Perhaps they would be effective against the coxsackie virus as well. One treatment is iodine supplementation, the other treatment is megadoses of vitamin C:

    Iodine – Its Use in the Treatment and Prevention of Poliomyelitis and Allied Diseases

  104. wasabi Says:

    A couple of more thoughts about fighting the chronic sore throat virus:

    Maintain healthy collagen by taking adequate amounts of Vitamin C, l-lysine and l-proline:

    The Collagen Connection

    Vitamins Reduce the Duration and Severity of Influenza

    Supplement with camu camu

  105. wasabi Says:

    I was just reading about Hip’s comments on the noncytopathic form of enteroviruses “This noncytopathic form of the virus lives within human cells, rarely breaking out of these cells into the blood and tissues.” Reading this made me think of how insulin resistance negatively affects the transport of vitamin C into cells where it is needed. Too much starch and especially sugar in the diet is not a good thing when you are fighting viruses:

    Reversing Diabetes Type II, Glucose-Ascorbate Antagonism

  106. Hip Says:

    Many thanks for taking the time to write, Wasabi.

    You have provided interesting links. I did not know for example that vitamin B1 and vitamin B3 have antiviral properties. Having read that, I think it is well worth experimenting high doses of B1 and B3.

    In terms of the collagen, my guess is that it is elastin that is being attacked by this infection, rather than collagen. This is partly because from the dermatology pictures I have seen, collagen loss produces thick long wrinkles, whereas elastin loss produces fine tiny wrinkles, and it is these fine wrinkles that I have developed. Also high elastase (the elastin-eating enzyme) is common in CFS, so this fact supports the idea that the wrinkles are probably due to loss of elastin.

  107. dave Says:

    Problem solved: I’m allergic to my dog. Now hands are getting red and itching like crazy after playing with my dog. Makes only sense that my throat and sinus problems are related. Guess I’m going to have to get allergy shots…

    REPLY: Congratulations. It takes a while to gets answers, but when they finally arrive, it is pleasing, to say the least. Although sometimes, there can also be an underlying viral problem too: chronic infections often predispose you to allergies. However, if you fix the particular allergies you have, you can feel much better.

    – Hip

  108. wasabi Says:

    Hi Hip,
    Here is some info about elastin:
    Long-term evaluation of collagen and elastin following infrared irradiation

    The first article mentioned that elastin works best in the presence of water. Could your fine skin wrinkles result from dehydration as well as elastin destruction?

    REPLY: Thanks again for the links.

    I tend to drink a lot of water, so I don’t think dehydration is a factor.

    But anyway, the situation is more complex that just that. Elastase and MMP-9, both of which eat away elastin, are actually special enzymes manufactured by many viruses and bacteria, in order for them to eat through our tissues, and thus spread themselves around our bodies. These enzymes greatly increase the virulence of these microbes. But what makes things more complicated is that our immune system cells can also secrete these two enzymes, for their own purposes.

    Two other major elastin-eating enzymes made by our bodies are MMP-2 and MMP-12.

    Another way in that elastin gets depleted is when the fibroblast cells in our skin that actually make elastin in the first place get damaged (fibroblasts can be infected by a virus, for example), so that new elastin cannot be made in the skin. Coxsackievirus does tend to infect and permanently lodge itself in fibroblasts. Note that fibroblasts, as well as making elastin, can also make elastase, so they have the capacity to both build, and remove, elastin structures, as required. So damaged fibroblasts may be pumping out too much elastase, and/or not making enough elastin.

    You would probably need a specialist type of skin biopsy to determine if the fibroblasts were damaged or infected. And unfortunately, lab tests for blood levels of MMP-9, elastase, MMP-2 and MMP-12 are also specialist tests, and I have not found a lab that does them.

    So I have no way of knowing which mechanism (or mechanisms) is causing the elastin loss.

    – Hip

  109. wasabi Says:

    Hi Hip,
    I think that you might want to investigate the use of curcumin (from turmeric) made more bioavailable with piperine (from black pepper) as an elastase inhibitor. Sorry I don’t have time to provide anything more than just enough info to tease your interest to pursue this further.

    REPLY: Curcumin is an excellent suggestion. I have been using high dose (5000 mg daily) evening primrose oil as an elastase inhibitor, which when you apply directly on the skin does help.

    I did not know that curcumin could inhibit elastase. And a quick check on Google shows that it also inhibits MMP-9, so this is useful.

    Thanks again for taking the time to write.

    – Hip

  110. wasabi Says:

    Hi Hip,

    You said, “just by my clinical picture, the virus which best fits my symptoms is one of the enteroviruses, probably a coxsackie B virus.”

    Check out this link about curcumin:

    Curcumin suppresses coxsackievirus B3 replication

    Adequate amounts of selenium and vitamin E may be factors as well, as “Coxsackievirus B3-resistant mice become susceptible in selenium/vitamin E deficiency”.

    REPLY: Many thanks, Wasabi. I did take curcumin (with piperine and lecithin to increase bioavailability) for several months (having read the same antiviral article that you linked to above), but I did not notice much improvement. This may be because I have a different coxsackievirus to the B3 type. There are six of them, Coxsackie B1 to B6. In long-term, low-level “smoldering” coxsackievirus infections, it is very hard to test for the presence of coxsackievirus, and even harder to find out what type of coxsackievirus you have, at least by standard lab tests.

    Some literature suggests that there is a new strain of coxsackievirus B1 going about, which is very virulent, and has caused quite a few infant fatalities each year in the US (normally coxsackievirus is not fatal). So this mutated coxsackievirus B1 is on my list of possibilities for what I have.

    – Hip

  111. Carl 43 Says:

    have all the symptoms plus. Please email me at cp_histpreserve@hotmail.com. Mark email as sore throat etc.

    REPLY: I have emailed you as requested.

    – Hip

  112. damo Says:

    Coxsackie Virus Infections

    REPLY: Thanks, Damo, for that link, which contains info on various Chinese herbs that have shown effectiveness against the coxsackievirus. I have in fact read this document before, but it contains a lot of very good stuff, so it was worth me reading it again.

    In fact this time I noticed something I did not see on my previous read: namely that the Chinese herb Bupleurum Root has a specific antiviral action against coxsackievirus B1. This is very interesting. Bupleurum is found within the herbal formula Minor Bupleurum. This herbal formula typically contains about 25% Bupleurum Root, mixed with other herbs: pinellia, scutellaria, jujube, ginseng, licorice and ginger.

    – Hip

  113. wasabi Says:

    damo,

    Thanks for the link about coxsackie. It is an informative article.

  114. wasabi Says:

    Here is an interesting take on why vitamin c can help but not cure CFS:

    http://www.mall-net.com/cathcart/cfids.html

  115. Hip Says:

    Filmaker Andy Abrahams Wilson has made a documentary about Lyme Disease called “Under Our Skin”.

    Like chronic fatigue syndrome, Lyme disease involves a lifetime of suffering, but just like CFS, the morally corrupt CDC officially deny Lyme is a physical disease caused by a chronic infection.

    Ah, the CDC: Bless their noble hearts.

    Andy Abrahams Wilson goes to Capitol Hill to show his Movie

    Under Our Skin – Lyme Disease Documentary Trailer

  116. wasabi Says:

    Hi Hip,

    Have you investigated the area of glyconutrients for helping you deal with CFS?

    Here is a reference to a page in a book about the effectiveness of sugars in brewer’s yeast.

    Writing about brewer’s yeast reminds me that there is a product called EpiCor that is based on food yeast that you might want to investigate.

    REPLY: I have tried the yeast polysaccharides called beta-glucans, but I have not yet tried just plain brewer’s yeast, which no doubt could be classed as a superfood, and may be good for CFS. Vegemite / Marmite is basically brewer’s yeast, in case you want to try it.

    A word about glyconutrients (glycoproteins): these are sold in a multilevel marketing scam, and have no scientific basis. I would avoid them.

    Do not confuse this, however, with phosphoglycolipids (“NT Factor” by Garth Nicolson, a well known CFS doctor), which do seem to improve CFS, by helping to maintain and repair cellular membranes.

    – Hip

  117. wasabi Says:

    Hi Hip,

    I will avoid MLM sources of glyconutrients.

    Here is an interesting article on selenium. I have read other references to selenium helping the body against viruses. This article mentions Keshon disease: “The disease occurred
    under the selenium deficiency combined
    with infection by Coxsackie B virus and has
    been prevented by selenium supplementation.”

    http://www.jbc.org/content/early/2008/08/29/jbc.R800045200.full.pdf

    REPLY: Yes, I have read that selenium has some antiviral properties. I understand that selenium is very useful if you have a coxsackievirus B myocarditis.

    Since I have seen for myself that our ‘chronic sore throat virus’ strongly attacks the heart (it has caused several heart attacks even in my small social group, and has produced both heart muscle and pericardium infections), it is probably a good idea for everyone who thinks they have this virus, which I think is a coxsackievirus B, to take daily selenium (200 mcg) to protect the heart.

    – Hip

  118. unbelievable Says:

    People just be careful some supplements can overload the liver and make our condition worse.

  119. jackie Says:

    Hi Unbelievable,

    Is a liver flush or cleanse a good idea, I have been trowing down every supplement under the sun trying to get better, I had two weeks of detox foot pads, they looked yuk after being on my feet overnight. Plus in the past my acupuncturist had to work on my liver a great deal.

    So are these liver flushes safe, I have been putting it off for quite a while. What do you think.

    Jac

    REPLY: Foot detox pad are a scam. If you hold one in the pure steam coming from a kettle, the pad will also turn the same dark color. It is designed to turn dark when exposed to the water from your perspiration, to make you think the pad absorbs toxins.

    As for the liver flush, I have read that people do feel better after doing this, and people say that they get clearer eyesight, better concentration, so it may well be worth trying.

    There are a lot of great herbs that support the liver. Milk thistle is a good one.

    The liver detoxifies the toxins in blood in two consecutive operations, like a production line in a factory: first the liver takes a toxin, and passes through what is called the phase I detox process of the liver, which partially neutralises the toxin. Then it passes this partially-neutralized toxin on to phase II detox process of the liver, which finishes the job, and directs the now fully neutralized toxin out of the liver, into the intestines.

    You can get liver problems if phase II is going slower than phase I, because then you get a build-up of partially-neutralized toxins in the liver, waiting to go into phase II.

    Herbs like milk thistle protect the liver by both slowing down phase I, and speeding up phase II. This clears the backlog of partially-neutralized toxins waiting in the liver, which is good for the liver.

    And in addition, milk thistle strongly promotes the repair and regeneration of liver cells. It is so powerful a regenerator that it has been known to repair even liver cirrhosis.

    So this herb provides two beneficial actions in the liver: it clears the toxin backlog, and rejuvenates liver cells.

    There are many other good herbs for the liver available as well.

    – Hip

  120. jackie Says:

    Thanks Hip,

    I did wonder about those pads, that maybe any moisture will turn the crystals/powder black…so back to milk thistle.

    Jac

  121. doug Says:

    Inosine (hypoxanthine riboside) is the precusor to Isoprinosine, which boosts natural killer cells and the immune system. Isoprinosine is prescribed by European Dr’s for CFS, but is not FDA approved in the U.S.

    Inosine has anti-viral properties, but is also a antioxidant peroxynitrite scavanger, increases cellular respiration, and stimulates regrowth of nerve endings.

    Uric acid is produced by xanthine oxidase from xanthine and hypoxanthine, which in turn are produced from purine. I became interested in Inosine when I heard of a study that there was no overlap between MS patients and Gout patients. I tested positive for EBV, which is suspected as a cause of MS, and started taking Inosine:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uric_acid#cite_note-17
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9435251
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17121380.

    A specialty vitamin store might carry Inosine, although I can’t find it on the shelf anymore. I’ve been buying on the internet from this supplier: http://shop.ultimatenutrition.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/47?osCsid=da8f87f3dc

    I started at 1,000 mg/day, and have taken 2,000 mg/day for short periods. I think it has helped me, and appears to have boosted my natural killer cell levels.

    REPLY: Many thanks Doug for the update.

    I am taking a number of NK cell activity boosters myself. There are quite a few of them to choose from: inosine, lycopene (a form of vitamin A), zinc, neem, vitamin E, selenium, IP6 (inositol hexaphosphate), Siberian ginseng, panax ginseng, spirulina, alfalfa, echinacea, quercetin, MGN3 (Biobran), low-dose naltrexone, DHEA, glutamine, astragalus, cordyceps, MCP (modified citrus pectin), rhodiola rosea (golden root), cat’s claw, beta sitosterol.

    I am not sure of the relative effectiveness of each of these, however. It would be nice to know which ones are the most powerful. There are studies that show that MGN3 Biobran increases natural-killer cell activity by 300%. But MGN3 is quite expensive.

    Did you find that inosine made you slightly more depressed? It did for me, so I stopped taking it.

    – Hip

  122. Kona Says:

    When I had the worst sore throat, at the beginning, the only thing I found that was soothing was the Throat Coat herbal pastille (lozenge) made by Traditional Medicinals. I only had a few samples in my tea box but you can check the website or health food store. Recently I noticed that green tea seemed to decrease the sore throat symptom. We use the Yamamotoyama brand tea bag (Japanese) from the Asian food store, NOT one of the western brands. Steep for 10 minutes. If you prefer it sweet, agave syrup is a nice alternative sweetener. Turns out that green tea is a known antiviral.

    I’m not sure if we all have the same thing. My first sore throat, five years ago, lasted at least three months and was bad. After that it has pretty much been on a monthly cycle, a little less painful each time but with some surprise exceptions. Some months it has stayed away. For this reason I believe it is some form of herpes virus. In the beginning I also had scary neurological symptoms and was afraid it was M.S. Luckily those have gotten better with time.

    I have a lot of g.i. problems but most of them could be related to lactose intolerance. This is something to check out. Try eating dairy one day with and another day without lactase pills. Now that I am carrying and using the pills each day, my g.i. symptoms are much better. I think I made my condition much worse by not addressing the diarrhea caused by lactose intolerance.

    For anxiety, avoid regular coffee. I drink decaf and limit the green tea to 1 or 2 cups a day and not too close to bedtime. Has anyone else noticed premature grey hair? Currently I am concerned with the possibility of an enlarged spleen. Was anyone else been diagnosed with this? I have had feelings of fullness near my ribs, loss of appetite, and feeling full right at the beginning of a meal. Enlarged spleen makes sense with the sore throat for perhaps 50 of the last 60 months.

    After close to 5 years I’m now at the point where I’m exhausted and not interested in socializing. My lymphocytes, creatinine, and blood pressure are low but my platelets and pulse rate are high.

    REPLY: Many thanks for writing, Kona.

    – Hip

  123. jackie Says:

    Hi Kona,

    Yep I can relate to the spleen probs I have awful pain under my ribs on the left side, it doesnt seem to have a pattern. It does come and go. As to the doctor, I fired him so I am going it alone at the moment, so no CT scan.

    Regards Jac

  124. Bastante Says:

    Hi Hip,
    Please contact me.

    REPLY: I have emailed you as requested. – Hip

  125. Sherri Says:

    I have had similar problems for 12 years now. When my children were smaller I seemed to get really ill feeling and really tired all the time. I ached and could not motivate myself or have interest in anything. The docotor diagnosed me with Chromic fatigue and some fibromyaglia. They put me on Effexor which is a anti depressant and it literally about killed me. It took me two years to get off of it and it was only because I did catch the flu and went off of it cold turkey since I felt like death anyway. After I returned from the flu 2 weeks later I felt a little better and was able to function somewhat but still have never been the same. Always tired and sluggish with no desire for any excitment or social life. Recurrent infections (bacterial and yeast and urinary). I started developing fibroids and cysts and decided to have a complete hysterectomy about a little over a year ago. Since I still have been sluggish and now dealing with a hormone nightmare. About 6 months ago I had a attack of some sort where I couldnt go to sleep and my eyes rolled back in my head and I was jerking some and been to the emergency room 7 times. No finding of anything in my blood work. MRI was fine of my head. My mental state I feel like I am struggling to keep and the lack of sleep and tiredness is wearing me very thin. I was admitted once to the psycho ward because I insisted there is something wrong with me medically and they kept telling me anxiety which I never had before until now. Now my throat hurts all the time with no white spots. I use to get strepp throat every year and never had white patches but I just ran a fever and my throat was a little sore. They did tell me i had Mono sometime in my life and that I had the Parvo B19 virus sometime in my life but it wasnt a recent infection. How do you get tested to find out what type of viruses you have in your body?

    REPLY: Thanks for writing Sherri.

    A lot of viral (and bacterial) infections can cause anxiety states, and usually a whole lot of other symptoms. Infections can create a chemical imbalance in the brain, that switches on your anxiety “circuits”. Only recently is medical science discovering that infectious microbes are behind many health conditions (in the future, we may find that the vast majority of diseases are caused by microbes). This is why people can suddenly get anxiety disorder: one minute they are fine, and then they catch a virus (not all viruses give initial symptoms of fever), and this will upset the brain chemistry and generate anxiety. This anxiety is nothing to do with the normal worries of life. It is a constant level of anxiety, caused by the unbalanced brain chemistry.

    The problem is that we don’t have very effective antivirals at present, so it is hard to treat the root cause of the anxiety symptoms (the infection), so instead we have anti-anxiety drugs, many of which are addictive. But not all. You can try SSRI anti-depresants, which can be very effective for some people with anxiety states.

    Sometimes, very simple techniques can greatly calm your anxiety states. For example, if you have sinusitis (an infection in the sinuses), such an infection can often affect the brain, causing anxiety (as the brain is located just behind the sinus cavities). Simply performing nasal irrigation with warm, slightly salty water once or twice a day can do wonders for clearing your sinuses, and fixing your anxiety. Search for “nasal irrigation” in youTube, and you will see how nasal irrigation is done.

    There are many herbs and other dietary supplements that can help lower anxiety as well.

    To answer you question:
    Most viruses can easily be tested for by blood work. Looks like you have already been tested for parvo, and Epstein Barr virus (the virus which causes mono), but they are not active. I imagine that your doctors have already tested you for other viruses, such as HHV-6 and cytomegalovirus (but if not, you might want to get tested for these two). Another common virus that causes CFS and many other mental symptoms is Coxsackie B virus, and echovirus. These are both types of enterovirus. Note that it is not easy to test for long term enterovirus infections (though there are some special tests available for these – see the enterovirus section above on this page). The hepatitis C virus is also associated with creating anxiety states.

    Bacterial infections from Borrelia (the bacterial cause of Lyme disease), often produce anxiety states.

    I hope this helps gives some idea of the situation, which is often not an easy one to resolve.

    – Hip

  126. Anonymous Says:

    Hi,
    Have you considered that this might be a candida-albicans problem. I have very similar problems and no one has them but me..I have read & re-read and I believe I amm overlaoded with candida? I need to find some study of this
    before I waste away , burn away, or lose it.
    thanks. a fellow sufferer.

  127. Phooph Says:

    My experience with this virus is that it suppresses the probiotics in the gut and encourages candida overgrowth. I had a severe candida infection many years ago after taking antibiotics and I recognized the symptoms developing after I caught this virus. Other viruses do this too, and it is one of the symptoms of HIV infection.

    My response to the candida is to take an enteric coated probiotic formula and stay away from sugars. My symptoms of candida have not gone away but have improved greatly. I no longer get the bad dizzy spells which are a candida symptom.

  128. Steven Says:

    A new study shows that there is a previously little-known retrovirus that is very common in people diagnosed with chronic fatigue:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/health/research/09virus.html

    REPLY: Thanks Steven. I saw that news too. This “xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus” (XMRV) was also recently singled out as possibly a casual factor in prostate cancer. It has also been associated with autism.

    – Hip

  129. Hip Says:

    Here is a also good write-up about the XMRV retrovirus in the the journal Nature:

    http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091008/full/news.2009.983.html

    It says that XMRV DNA is found in 67% of CFS patients, but only found in 3.7% of healthy people.

    Whether this XMRV actually contributes the the symptoms and pathogenesis of CFS remains to be seen. XMRV may just be an “innocent bystander”. In other words, if you have CFS virus like coxsackievirus B or HHV-6A, which themselves can weaken you immunity, it means that other infections, such as XMRV, can arise more easily.

    Alternatively, XMRV may work in tandem with a virus like coxsackievirus B or HHV-6A, and it is the combination of the two that triggers CFS.

    In the case of HIV/AIDS, a similar thing is believed to happen: if you have HIV and HHV-6A, it is thought that the progression to AIDS is much faster, because the two viruses together help each other.

    The very good news about this XMRV discovery is that there will now be a frenzy research into XMRV and CFS. Even the CDC (who to date officially deny that CFS is a physical disease), are already trying to replicate these findings. If they do find the same thing, this may begin to make them officially change their minds about CFS, and humbly admit that CFS is a real disease. It takes an act of courage to admit that your are wrong, so let us hope that the CDC has this in them.

    And of course, if XMRV is contributing to CFS, then it should be possible to find antiviral drugs that target XMRV. Perhaps even existing anti-retroviral drugs may help.

  130. Hip Says:

    Yes, as a matter of fact, one of the authors of the research, Dr Judy Mikovits, is already planning a study to see if existing HIV anti-retroviral drugs will help CFS patients. She believes that CFS is caused by XMRV (although she has no definite proof this stage), and says she has data to show that XMRV attacks the immune system.

    http://www.breakthroughdigest.com/viral-infection-news/breakthrough-virus-linked-to-chronic-fatigue-syndrome

    Again, it is likely that XMRV on its own may not trigger CFS, unless there is another virus working in tandem with, such as an enterovirus.

    XMRV is thought to be transmitted via body fluids such as blood, semen, and mother’s breast milk but is not transmitted through the air.

  131. Anonymous Says:

    Thank you so much for creating this site. I have experienced very similar (but not exact) symptoms as you have. I have within recent months become constantly infected with Shingles and have developed severe swelling of my spleen and liver. In my case they now suspect lymphatic cancer of some sort. We’ll see. Good luck with your cause.

    REPLY: Sorry to hear about all your health issues. In the case of shingles, caused by the reactivation of the varicella zoster virus (the chickenpox virus) by a weakened immune system, this I understand this virus is often very painful. Often in CFS type illnesses, studies show that the weakness is decreased natural killer cell function. Natural killer cells, when they are functioning correctly, target and destroy virally infected cells (and cancer cells). There are a number of boosters of natural killer cell activity:

    IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) 1200 mg
    Neem 500 mg
    Alfalfa 50 mg of alfalfa seed, or 8 grams of dried alfalfa leaves
    MGN3 Biobran
    Low-dose Naltrexone 5 mg once daily, taken before bed.
    Cordyceps 2000 mg
    Echinacea 1500 mg
    Inosine 1000 mg
    Lycopene (a form of vitamin A) 8 mg
    Rhodiola rosea (also called: golden root) 500 mg

    Dosages to be taken twice daily.

    These natural killer (NK) cell activity boosters are very useful for anyone with CFS, to help control the secondary infections that occur.

    I would check with you doctor, though, before using these NK boosters, in case they are contraindicated for suspected lymphatic cancer.

    There are some herbs that have a mild effect against varicella zoster virus, such as lemon balm (melissa officinalis). More here.

    I read that varicella zoster virus also requires cholesterol in order to infect cells (this is termed cholesterol-dependent fusion). Perhaps a low-cholesterol diet may help suppress varicella zoster virus replication. I am not sure. I don’t know if this has been tried. Certainly, with viruses like Epstein-Barr, which require more acid conditions to enter and infect certain cells (termed pH-dependent fusion), an alkalising diet can be a very effective means of controlling Epstein-Barr (Cathy on this blog had a good recovery from her Epstein-Barr via an alkalising diet). So perhaps a low-cholesterol diet for varicella zoster virus may quell this virus?

    I hope this helps.

    – Hip

  132. Louisa Oosthuizen Says:

    2009.10.11> Hi from a sunny South Africa! 2 months ago I suddenly experience pain frod my glands and felt there pain in my throat>unbearable painConsulted doctors every week and ended up with an ENT Specialist. He did a thorough examination and said there is virus in my throut and a few white spots on my tonsils. Explained he cannot predict the period of healing!I went to outpatients at a hospital after work. At this stage I experience extreme pain, and the doctor did a “swop” I reported the next day for duty! Due to operations, I cannot take sick leave. Experience tiredness and sleep Saturday and Sundays to ensure that I attend to burn out. When I stress, the pain is severe in the jaw area and glands. To report back after consultation to obtain results. God’s Healing Power & Protection on your health Louisa date of birth 1950.03.07

  133. Hip Says:

    Update on XMRV:

    Since the Whittemore Peterson Institute work on XMRV retrovirus was published, the researchers there have increased the sensitivity of their XMRV tests, and say that in fact XMRV antibodies are found in 95% of CFS patients.

    “This finding clearly points to the retrovirus as a significant contributing factor in this illness,” said Dr Judy Mikovits, the leading researcher.

    There is a test for XMRV coming out very soon, available from VIP labs.

  134. unbelievable Says:

    If the virus is identified, then adapt immune could potentially fix it; They are moving forward with HIV trials!!!!
    http://www.adaptimmune.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Adaptimmune-Penn-SL9-Trial-release-FINAL-Oct-2009.pdf.

  135. Sick Says:

    hi,

    i cant belive this, this is my exact condition. ive tested myself for std its been negative for 3 years. i ve started to have theese simptoms in 2006. gradualy ALL of what you describe (chronic infection of throat, nose, fatigue, anxiety, depression, skin problems, stomack problems, ) affect me now.

    how can i approach my doctor with this information?

    REPLY: Unless you find a doctor that is sympathetic towards chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME), you are unlikely to get much help. Most will just prescribe anti-depressants, even though anti-depressants usually do not work well with CFS/ME patients. So find a CFS/ME-friendly doctor first of all. – Hip

  136. Hip Says:

    Here is a nice little article; perhaps this person has the same virus:

    Viruses will be the downfall of civilization as we know it

  137. Karen W Says:

    You have Lyme Disease! I’ve been there myself actully had many of the same symptoms. It took over a year to be officially diagnosed. The inital tests were all negative. Then after about 1 year of Doxycycline and 3 months off meds and an Igenex Lab test I tested positive for Lyme, Babesia and Ehrlichiosis. I was one of the lucky ones because I remembered being bit by a tick but many have no memory of that event which makes for an even more complicated path to a diagnosis.
    Karen W

    REPLY: Thanks for the suggestion Karen, but in fact this in not Lyme. What we have here is quite contagious, and passes easily to people you meet socially. – Hip

  138. connie Says:

    It began with a sore throat on November 10, 2009. I have just had blood work done and don’t know the results but have a feeling it’s going to be normal. The doctor first diagnosed mild viral pneumonia. I went to another doctor, same facility, she asked if I was depressed and I agreed I am but already had depression. This is different and not depression caused, I’m sure. Doctor suggested we check for Thyroid, as the symptoms are very similar. I have a feeling these tests will be normal. I have such fatigue as I have never known. I can sleep two days straight through then wake up, confused, eat, drink, be up and feeling lousy for about 1 hour and I have an instantaneous urge to fall asleep and must get into bed and sometimes can’t make it to bed…just fall asleep. My tongue is always burning, back muscles burning, leg pains, chest pains, top of stomach tingles and burns, loss of appitite, double vision and blurred vision, ears pinging like water or pressure pings, joints ache and feel loose, knees shake and legs wabble upon sitting or standing, body trembles severely at times, head bobbing and trembling, flatulence, constipation then loose bowel, teeth ache. I had fever blisters inside and outside of my nose all the way to my upper lip which felt septic at one point. The skin from the affected areas of the sores peeled thin wrinkled skin layers for three weeks. Arm pains, chest pain on left side of chest, lower intestinal pains are on and off, headache, sinus pressure, slight runny nose, irritated eyes which are dry, pale complexion, swollen feet and ankles. After the sore throat at the onset, severe congestion and cough, fevers and sweats, then cold limbs to touch. Extremely withdrawn and then super grumpy. I’ve never had this illness before. I’ve had a severe pneumonia and this is not quite like that. This is some illness I’ve never experienced. I will press for further tests if the blood work comes back normal.

    REPLY: HI Connie. This certainly sounds like the virus I have. – Hip

  139. john Says:

    Hi

    This is all very helpful.

    I have prickling skin all over – standard Drs in UK are not helpful.

    Does anyone have a view about Lyme without the classical red circular rash ?

    Thanks

  140. Anonymous Says:

    Hello. I have read through your blog very carefully and would like to ask if at any time during treatment for your sore throat, cough, and other infections, you were ever given a course (or more than one) of quinolone antibiotics. These would include Cipro, Levaquin, and Avelox. Many of the symptoms that you are describing, including the nerve, joint, and hearing problems, and skin and sleep disorders are associated with adverse reactions to these drugs and may not, in many cases, manifest themselves for weeks or even months after they have been taken. Thanking you in advance for your reply.

    REPLY: Thank you very much for that warning about the dangers of quinolone antibiotics. In fact, there was a similar comment made a long time ago on this site (see here).

    You are quite right to be concerned: Wikipedia says of these drugs: “The fluoroquinolone drugs are considered by several research groups to be the most toxic and dangerous antibiotics in clinical practice today”.

    I understand that quinolones can damage your mitochondrial DNA.

    However, the symptoms described on this site have unfortunately been observed in over 15 people who caught the same virus, not just in me. So we can rule things like drug side effects out completely. Having said that, I did take a brief course of Avelox for 10 days recently (I never took quinolones previously), but this was 5 years after I initially caught this virus, and all my symptoms had already fully manifested and settled in.

    I hope this adequately answers your question.

    – Hip

  141. jackie Says:

    Connie,
    How long have you had this virus…I think you have made a mistake with the dates…has it been months or years, because I have the same going on here with the addition of girlie problems

    Jac

  142. Judy Says:

    what can you do to get rid of this. I really thought I was losing it. I have quite a few of the symptoms. Extreme fatigue, withdrawal of friends, sore throat, depression somewhat, don’t like drinking alcohol next few days after I feel terrrible. I have tried vitamins nothing works I feel good a few days then no energy again… Any advise would be great…

    REPLY: Hi JUdy. You might want to start perhaps by getting tested for Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 virus, and parvovirus, to see if these are causing your infection. You might also want to see an infectious disease specialist, as there are other other infections that can cause these general symptoms. Once you know what yo’ve got, you can move forward from there. – Hip

  143. Roy Says:

    Hey,
    First of all, congratulations for this website, I wish I had found it earlier on, it would have saved me a lot of blood work, but most specially I wouldn’t have had to go through the multiple diseases I went through in my head.
    If it helps, out of all the blood work, the only values that were consistently iffy were the iron levels (not ferritin) which were mildly low, and a cholesterol coefficient which was low too. It seems like my heartbeats per sec. are always between 90-100.
    On top of all the symptoms I have a sort of trembling and general clumsiness which varies with my state of health. Also some GERD and dysphagia which varies with my health too.
    I’d really like to know what kind of possible viruses I should ask my GP to have me tested for, along with potential diseases which might mimic this one.
    As I’ve said, I’ve had many blood tests done ever since I got this in July 2007, so if you are curious about anything, just let me know.
    I have never followed any treatment other than taking good care of my health, and reading this website : )

    Again, than you infinitely,

    Roy

    ps. I have been to MANY doctors, both general and specialists, and they were all clueless.

    REPLY: Glad the site has been useful, Roy. If you have symptoms roughly like those descried on this blog, then you may have chronic fatigue syndrome. This is usually caused by Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 virus, parvovirus, or an enterovirus (typically of the Coxsackie B type). It is easy to get tested for the first three (if you doctor will not agree to it, a private doctor or private testing lab will do it); however, standard enterovirus/coxsackievirus CFT tests are not worth doing in the case of chronic, long term infections. See the enterovirus section on this page for the explanation of this. Alternatively, find yourself a good CFS doctor, and they will perform all the right tests. Once you know what type of CFS you have, you can better tailor what little treatment options there are available. I assume you have already been to an infectious disease specialist, but if not, it is worth going. I hope this helps. – Hip

  144. esther Says:

    Just wanted to share my experience with you all. I started being”ill” 2 years ago. after an stressful year, my immune system was completely shattered. I had infection after infection. The sore throat started after an episode of flu and never went away.Since then, and after being ignored by my GP, i had two miscarriages, I have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, haemophilia and last week I was in hospital with gram -ve bacterial meningitis. I feel scared and alone.
    I ve tried everything echinacea, propolis, manuka honey, gargles, lozegens, antibiotics, eating well, you name it. i ve also started some counselling to help me cope with my ever deteriorating health.Cayenne powder gargles gives me symptomatic, short term relief for my sore throat but never goes bloody away. I don’t recognise myself i was a 30 years old healthy, active woman and please people stop saying “stop thinking about it, it will get better”. I did nearly died of meningitis last week!

    REPLY: Sorry to hear of all these trouble you are having, Esther. The fact that you were recently hit with bacterial meningitis perhaps suggests that your immune system is having trouble fighting bacteria. To boost you immune system, try some herbs that increase “Natural Killer Cell” function, such as: Cordyceps, Rhodiola Rosea, Echinacea, Inositol Hexaphosphate (IP6). This will help to keep bacterial infections away in future. Be careful not to take any herbs that have an anti-coagulant effect, like Garlic, Ginger and Panax Ginseng, which are contra-indicated for hemophilia.

    If you do have chronic fatigue syndrome-like symptoms as well, you should look into finding a good doctor that understands CFS. The Treatments Page on this blog has details of CFS doctors around the world.

    - Hip

  145. Asklepius Says:

    A cousin of mine (just two years older) was just recently “diagnosed” with Lou Gehrig’s Disease. The infection that we have causes a lot of degenerative ailments that are currently being misdiagnosed: ALS, Lyme, FM, etc, etc.

    A lot of people out there are simply suffering from this infection and all of the breakdowns that occur with it.

    Anyway, my symptoms are quite similar to my cousin’s. For him, they give two to five years of life left.

    REPLY: I just did a quick check, and Lou Gehrig is linked to an enterovirus infection (specifically, an enterovirus similar to echovirus 7): Enterovirus and Lou Gehrig. The article does say that Lou Gehrig’s only affects the muscles, and that language and memory are not affected. So this is different to CFS, where much of the damage is to the memory, language, thinking and emotional side of the brain.

    – Hip

  146. unbelievable Says:

    Asklepius LGD is this heriditary or some type of infection? what are your symtoms? Did u get fordyce spots on your lips?

  147. phooph Says:

    Here is a good article on the importance of gut microbes to a healthy immune system.
    http://www.care2.com/greenliving/the-inner-tube-of-life-your-digestive-system.html

    The noisy bowels, gas, dizziness, depression, foggy brain symptoms are all indicators of a disruption in the balance of healthy flora in the gut.

  148. Jessica Says:

    I am a 38 year-old female who has been suffering from almost all of the symptoms you’ve listed. I amazed at what I have read on your website. I have been going through doctors and taking one antibiotic after the other to no avail.
    I have been tested three times for HIV, which is negative. I’ve had my blood count come back fine. I do have HSV 1 & 2. My doctor prescribed me several z-packs, keflex and amoxicillin for tonsil cysts.
    My symptoms are a few cyst-like lumps on each tonsil. They caused no pain for about one year then they started feeling like a knife was going through my throat.
    I have noticed changed in my skin. For example my neck skin looks very loose and has an odd texture. I have noticed this on my chest and other parts of my body as well.
    My hair has been falling out as well. From reading about what methods seem to help from your website, I have started taking acyclovir. After only a week on the antivirals I feel a bit better.
    Thanks for the information. If my doctor was more open-minded I would show him your website.

    REPLY: Hi Jessica. Sorry to hear you have these symptoms. If you think that you may have Epstein-Barr virus (which acyclovir fights against), you might also consider going on an alkalizing diet, as this can be quite effective against EBV as well. – Hip

  149. Jessica Says:

    Thanks- I will try it! Thanks for your website, it gave me great relief to read your information.

  150. Jessica Says:

    I have some questions- I began taking samples of Valtrex 1 mg for 5 days. I was not able to afford the Valtrex from the pharmacy after my samples ran out, so I asked my dr. for acyclovir. I went from feeling like I was improving, to feeling like I am backsliding. My throat still hurts.
    My question is- how much acyclovir would be equivalent to 1mg Valtrex. Is 1 mg even enough?
    Could it be that the acyclovir is not working as well as the Valtrex?
    To recap my history briefly:
    38 year old female, no strep. Have had sore throat on and off for over a year.
    I have been tested three times for HIV, which is negative. I’ve had my blood count come back fine. I do have HSV 1 & 2. My doctor prescribed me several z-packs, keflex and amoxicillin for tonsil cysts.
    My symptoms are a few cyst-like lumps on each tonsil. They caused no pain for about one year then they started feeling like a knife was going through my throat.

    Thanks Hip>

    Jessica

    REPLY: Valacyclovir (Valtrex) normally comes in 500mg or 1000mg tablets. Oral valacyclovir is around 3 to 5 times more powerful than acyclovir. As you probably know, valacyclovir is converted into acyclovir in the body. The reason valacyclovir is more powerful is because acyclovir is not well absorbed by the stomach (usually only 10% to 30% of oral acyclovir is absorbed) whereas valacyclovir is well absorbed in the stomach.

    Both valacyclovir and acyclovir are usually prescribed for herpes I & II, and varicella zoster virus, but they do have a mild effect against Epstein-Barr virus and CMV. I assume your doc prescribed the drug for the herpes, and people do get chronic fatigue from herpes II, so this could be the reason you are tired. Or it could be from Epstein-Barr virus. Have you been tested for Epstein-Barr?

    I hope this makes sense. – Hip

  151. Jessica Says:

    Thanks Hip, that is the information I have been looking for. I was tested for Mono about three years ago for these same symptoms- if that is the same as Epstein Barr ?-and the mono spot told that I was exposed to it.
    My blood count came back normal, so I am confused at what is going on with me.
    The ENT said I should have my tonsils removed – but I am skeptical because I feel ill all over.
    My dr. game me a penicillin prescription, but I feel it is viral. So I took the Valtrex in hopes of it helping.
    And I did not fill the penicillin prescription.
    Should I just try the Valtrex?

    REPLY: Yes, Epstein-Barr is the virus that causes mononucleosis or “mono”. Most adults have EBV in their body, but in an inactive state (latent), which is may be what your test indicated.

    I would definitely find a second opinion before getting my tonsils removed. As you say, your whole body is affected. But I am not a medical expert.

    One virus to consider, that may be causing your symptoms, is the enterovirus called Coxsackie B virus. This is hard to test for in long-term infections, but there are specialist tests available, see here.

    You may also want to find a doc that specializes in chronic fatigue syndrome, which is what you may have, as a result of this virus.
    – Hip

  152. Jessica Says:

    Thanks again for the information. You are a great source of help.

  153. Karen Says:

    A year ago I woke up with pulsatile tinnitus and palpitations, a few days later I got an inflammed throat, all sides and the center. It then became really bad sinus which lasted probably 6 months. My sore throat does not bother much anymore. It never had inflammed tonsils or white spots. A few months ago a spot showed up on one tonsil but never changes, I have had the body tingling, foot numbness, brain fog and tiredness but nothing extreme. I can function daily but I am getting frustrated that this continues. I have been told it is anxiety and depression, it could be because life has been very stressful for me for a few years. The ear ringing never ends, I have seen 3 ENT’s. The last one has taken me seriously and ordered and MRI, I have had throid problems for years but it is kept in good order. The body tingles have reduced a lot as well. A CT scan and X-ray of my sinus never did show anything significant. I am about ready to give up and go for the Paxil, I have been taking sublingual B12 for about a week and it makes the foot numbness and mental fog a lot better. I do have some GERD but had surgery for it a long time ago and it seems to be coming back so not sure if that is anything related or not. I do not have the stomach problems or severe fatigue as I sleep well at night and wake up ready to go. Any ideas if this is a continuance of the virus I had last winter or just something that is taking its time to work through. I today have an inflammed throat for the first time since last summer. Never had swollen or infected tonsils, swollen glands or fever. Any info is much appreciated.

    REPLY: Hi Karen. You may have chronic fatigue syndrome, which is a chronic condition that has symptoms like tinnitus, foggy brain, recurrent sore throat, pins and needles (parethesias), and so forth. CFS is usually caused by viruses like Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus or enterovirus. You might want to get a blood test to check if you have any of these viruses active in your body. – Hip

  154. damo Says:

    maybe a trip to Tbilisi, Georgia will be a more fruitful investment in treatment-
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8887931967515748990&ei=4W3QSvatE4en-AbGqrDpDw&q=antibiotica+horizon#

  155. dc10801 Says:

    1000mg=1gram….dr prob gave you 1 gram valtrex not 1mg


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