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i used aniracetam for my brain fog with alpha gpc and it gave me a massive brain fog!
Hey Hip, why did you delete a part about nasal cognestion sympthom? Or am I wrong?
Some people were saying that the Treatments page was too long and complex, so I streamlined it a bit, and removed a few sections. If you want nasal congestion and sinusitis treatments, you can find them here.
The missing link is, most all of us have “Leaky Gut Syndrome” that’s the underlying-undiagnosed problem. Everything you’ve mentioned on the homepage is symptomatic of this LGS that’s allowing Endotoxins called Lipopolysaccharides (LPS) to translocate from the gut lumen directly into the bloodstream, which is, in most cases, a low-grade systemic sepsis. If the LPS travels to your Thyroid, the immune system recognizes it as a bacterial infection and begins attacking the Thyroid Gland (Hashimoto’s). If the LPS gets into your joints, the immune system attacks the joints (RA). If it gets into the brain, same thing – resulting in Alzheimer’s, Dementia, Parkinson’s, etc. In children this LPS causes Autism, usually from vaccines and antibiotics destroying the gut microbiome and allowing yeast to take over, which drill holes in your gut and turn into a fungus called CANdida albicans. When that fungus makes its way to an organ it begins to colonize in/on the organ, this is known as CANcer. Look up Dr. Peter Kan’s video on YouTube called “Leaky Gut 2.0” to better understand this. Then look up “Cancer is a Fungus” and watch Dr. Tullio Simoncini explain this to Doug Hoffman and how he cures all his CANcer patients using either baking soda or 7% tincture of Iodine (both are antifungals).
And here’s Microbiologist Kiran Krishnan explaining how this leaky gut is the absolute ROOT CAUSE of all disease, and how it is not the HIV virus killing AIDS patients, its this leaky gut syndrome that’s the real culprit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoMwZbPYt5k
If you have gut issues causing you Autoimmune diseases/CANcer, you have to kill the yeast/fungi overgrowth in the gut (gut is from mouth opening to anus) by using Sodium Ascorbate crystals, Olive Leaf Extract (OLE also destroys all viruses it’s been tested against), Colloidal Silver, etc. Once you kill off the gut infection you’ll want to recolonize with good gut bacteria and good prebiotics to feed them, or the yeast/fungi will come right back and repopulate that area again. Kiran developed an Endospore probiotic that actually survives the digestive process, it is called ‘Just Thrive Probiotics’.
You’ll also want to use a product by Dr. Zach Bush called ‘Restore’ to seal up the gut tight junctions holding your one cell layer thick epithelial lining together.
I just cured a 5 month old Kitten of FiV (yes, I mean she is literally cured and doing great) by focusing on her gut. Just as with AIDS patients, Kittens/Cats with Fiv, Felv, Distemper (Dogs with Parvo, too) are not dying because of the viral load, they are dying because they had a weak mucosa and epithelial lining. The virus caused disturbance in the GI tract and the Cat/Dog has leaky gut allowing LPS to get through the gut lining directly into the bloodstream. They are dying of sepsis, not a viral load.
First thing I did after I noticed she hadn’t eaten or drank anything in over 48 hours was squirt 2 cc’s of Karo Corn Syrup (sugar water will work, too) down her throat. If they don’t eat/drink for 24+ hours, they start getting hypoglycemic and it makes them feel really bad and they just keep getting sicker and more dehydrated, so you want to get that blood sugar up quickly. I used some GNC brand Ultra-Mega High Calorie Booster Gel wiped on her mouth to get her some much needed calories and vitamins. And I fed her 10 cc’s of Goat’s Milk with 1/2 tspn of the ‘Restore’ and about 300 mg’s of Olive Leaf Extract and 500 mg’s of Sodium Ascorbate Crystals mixed into it to seal up her gut lining and kill off any pathogen load in her gut.
32 minutes later she walked over to a water bowl and began drinking. The Karo spiked up her blood sugar and made her feel a lot better, which made her want to actually live, so she drank.
About an hour later I followed up with 10 cc’s of Pedialyte and approx. 300 mg’s of Activated Charcoal powder and a little sugar to make it taste better (given orally with syringe) to sweep the gut and adsorb any of the dead/dying pathogens the OLE and Vit C was killing and carry them out through the feces so they don’t get through the leaky gut and reinfect her again, which is a vicious cycle. Human’s need to use this method, too.
For the next 24-36 hours I repeated this process 3 to 4 times/day. About 36 hours in she started eating again. She was drinking on her own 32 minutes after I gave her the Karo, but still wouldn’t eat till about 36 hours later.
Now that she’s eating and drinking on her own, she began to self medicate. I’d just mix 300 mg’s of OLE, 3 to 500 mg’s of Vitamin C, 1/2 tspn of Restore, 1/2 tspn. of the GNC calorie booster, 1 cc of Karo corn syrup, and 1/2 of a capsule of the ‘Just Thrive’ probiotics to recolonize her gut. I only gave her the probiotics once per day.
By focusing mainly on her gut, I not only saved myself a $2,500.00 Vet bill, but I also saved her life. If you take a Cat with Fiv, Felv, Distemper, etc. or a Dog with Parvo to a Vet, all they will do is, hook them up on IV fluids and give them antibiotics that are going to destroy their guts even more.
And in an emergency situation where you can’t get your dog/cat rehydrated and need to act really-really fast, here’s a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufm4hSZklgg&index=5&list=PLxfhDVtYA0kY0WgUjc2aQwyx4KvusGgwe&t=0s
About 80% of the immune system is located in the gut, and as Hippocrates said: “All disease and health begins in the gut”.
Even Diabetes is caused from LPS getting into the pancreas and the immune system launching a full-bore attack on that organ.
Focus on the Gut!
Also, drinking chlorinated water destroys you AND your pets microbiome, as does any prescription drugs, antibiotics, birth control pills, etc. You have 4 to 5 pounds of bacteria in your gut (from mouth to anus), and those little guys make all your B-Vitamins, about 90% of Serotonin, and even some Hormones. They communicate with your brain via the Vagus Nerve. They literally give us Life and Health, but when we destroy them with the average Western diet, prescription drugs, and chlorinated water, they bad guys like yeast takeover and wreak havoc on our health (pets, too).
Here’s a good seminar by Dr. Zach Bush explaining this microbiome and how Glyphosate in RoundUp is destroying our guts (pets, too) via the Shikimate pathway. I think he talks about the ‘Restore’ product here, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL6OPzQe9Is&list=PLxfhDVtYA0kYME8AHfpWVPvsjxbCzA1hf&t=0s&index=3
Here’s a video showing Glyphosate destroying tight junctions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQTFD7EcZaI
Here’s what LPS does to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbJuVvT6ALQ
Here’s Mike the Gut Guy explaining leaky gut and CANdida overgrowth and how to kill it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxwxxGQWaTw&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=z7N1dkWTsl0rLzYL-6
That’s nonsense that any prescription drugs destroy the microbiome; one type of drug, antibiotics, may have temporary adverse effects on the microbiome, but probably nothing that a course of probiotics and prebiotics cannot fix.
It is also absolute nonsense and complete quackery that Candida causes cancer, and that baking soda cures cancer.
And another complete piece of bullshit is your statement that olive leaf extract “destroys all viruses it’s been tested against”. Are you really that gullible that you believe all the nonsense posted on alternative health websites?
Please try to keep this website scientific, rather than posting pseudoscience and quackery and any old nonsense that you happen to read on alternative health sites.
Here’s a good article on the CANcer being a CANdida albicans infection: https://www.libertariannews.org/2015/02/02/cancer-a-yeast-fungus-gone-out-of-control/
“Quackery and Pseudoscience”? Why do you think Olive trees live to be 100’s of years old? The phytochemicals they produce kill off bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc.
Not sure why you would attack me like that? I’ve only been studying this stuff for 20 years, and it isn’t quackery and pseudoscience. Don’t take my word for it, read the science and studies behind everything I’ve stated
Study: LPS is number one driver of Alzheimer’s: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5591429/
Circulating LPS prominant driver of ALS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995297/
Leaky Gut Syndrome even shuts down Testosterone and Progesterone production: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4918028/
Have you read Dr. Morton Walkers “Townsend Letter” on Olive Leaf Extract? https://secure.seagateproducts.com/images/uploads/pages/File/townsend-letter-may.pdf
Quoting Carbon Coyote: “Not sure why you would attack me like that? I’ve only been studying this stuff for 20 years, and it isn’t quackery and pseudoscience. Don’t take my word for it, read the science and studies behind everything I’ve stated”.
I am just a little weary of the mumbo jumbo that sometimes gets posted on this website.
Some of the things you say have got some scientific basis, for example that leaky gut may be a factor in autoimmune disease. But the emphasis is on may, because we don’t know at this stage, and it’s only a hypothesis, not a fact. So you are going far beyond the current scientific evidence when you claim that leaky gut / LPS causes Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson’s, autism, rheumatoid arthritis, Hashimoto’s. In science, you never state something as a fact unless you have plenty of evidence to support it.
Next you tell me that leaky gut is the cause of AIDS, which is absolute nonsense.
I’ve experimented with supplements and diet designed to help leaky gut (without noticing much benefit), as well as prebiotics and probiotics (which I found helped reduce anxiety symptoms), and I appreciate that improving gut health may have knock-on benefits. But to state that leaky gut is the cause of all these diseases is not based on any scientific evidence. Thus it is not a scientific statement.
Then you bring up the uber-quack Tullio Simoncini and you actually seem to believe that he can cure cancer with bicarb of soda. That’s just flabbergasting.
As for herbal antivirals, it’s important to appreciate the difference between in vitro data and in vivo data. Many herbs show potent antiviral effects in vitro, but have little or no effect in vivo when you actually take that herb orally, for reasons I am not going to explain here. So when you see on an alternative health website or book that herb X is “a very powerful antiviral”, it’s mostly nonsense, because they are usually referring to in vitro studies, which have little bearing on what actually works in the body.
If you want to understand more about antivirals, you need to learn about concepts such as the antiviral EC50, the antiviral selectivity index, the CC50, and so forth.
When I first became ill with this virus, I knew very little about medical science, but over the years I’ve picked up small bits of scientific knowledge here and there, and this has helped me to distinguish nonsense from valid medicine.
I respect your opinion, and I your site. I’m not trying to intrude, and I would NEVER share information I didn’t believe in. I appreciate you leaving my comments so at least people can study those links if they so desire. I’m only trying to share what has worked for me in hopes that it helps someone else. You’re alright in my book (hat-tip).
I’m not sure if I have this exact virus, but I believe it is or something similar. Ive run a number of CBCs, urinalysis and other tests and everything comes back subclinical despite various symptoms. This has lead me to the fringes of trying to treat this.
The main similarities I’ve noticed between myself and people who have caught it (slow transmission, mostly household), besides fatigue and emotional impacts, are skin symptoms. Easy injuries, slow healing, bad sunburns, skin pigmentation depending on age, etc. It occurred to me eventually that this was all due to fat loss, subcutaneous/adipose.
This eventually lead me to hormones. My current theory is that most if not all symptoms are related to hormone imbalances, as a result of disruption to the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid axis. This would explain everything from the skin to the mood and emotional impact. Just not sure if it is the body’s response to the pathogen, or if it actually attacks those organs (adrenals for example). If an organ system can be identified, supplementation would be more targeted.
I’m just about to take a saliva hormone test to corroborate but have to wait until Labor Day is over. Curious if you’ve ever looked down this path and your thoughts?
In myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), which is the disease this virus triggered in me, there is evidence for disruption of the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid (HPA) axis. The hypothalamus is a part of the brain that processes emotions and the stress response, so this might explain why those with ME/CFS are easy stressed, and often emotionally sensitive, or have other emotional symptoms such as weak blunted emotions, or sometimes random flighty emotions (emotional lability).
What I observed is that may people who caught this virus developed much milder versions of these ME/CFS emotional sensitivities and stress intolerances. Not severe enough to prevent them from working or taking part in normal social life, but still enough to perhaps reduce the quality of life.
I have not found much to help combat the stress intolerance and emotional sensitivities, although I’ve listed a few things on the Treatments Page of this site that do help a little bit. I am always on ME/CFS forums, and I don’t know anyone or any doctor who has found a treatment for the HPA axis dysfunction. I’ve tried quite a few herbs which target the hypothalamus, but they do not help much, except perhaps allicin which in high doses does seem to bolster the weakened emotions. More recently I found that hydrogen rich water does help a tiny bit with the emotional sensitivity; HRW increases the hormone ghrelin, which acts on the hypothalamus.
Enteroviruses themselves can and do infect multiple organs: they can infect the brain, the muscles, the stomach and intestines, the heart, the adrenals, and other organs. They are also associated with autoimmunity, which means that they may be able to trigger autoimmune disease.
There are currently no good antivirals for enterovirus, though Dr Chia uses antiviral treatments such as oxymatrine, Epivir and tenofovir off label to help combat chronic enterovirus infections. Unfortunately I did not notice much benefit from oxymatrine or Epivir, but have yet to properly try tenofovir.
Chronic enterovirus infections are very hard to detect by blood tests, because they are low-level infection that live inside human cells. If you use the highly sensitive micro-neutralization antibody tests for coxsackievirus B and echovirus provided by ARUP Lab in Utah, you may be able to observe elevated titers to these enteroviruses. See the FAQ page for info. But the ARUP tests are expensive, around $440 each.
Very much agree here. I have enough of the symptoms to recognize myself in the ME/CFS community, but mild enough on the spectrum to participate in life mostly as usual, except I know I’m slightly subpar compared to previously, and subjectively feel blunted.
I recently found Ancestral Supplments which are ground up organs from grass fed cows, the idea being that up until recently humans have eaten organs of healthy animals to support our respective organ. So I’m trying to identify what might be off via hormone testing to supplement.
In any case, I generally agree with your recent comment about the medical and alternate health communities. I too have been humbled by this experience.
In addition however, I’ll say that I have become a bit more delusioned with the average doctor through this experience. The general medical community has no answer for those of us dealing with these issues. They chalk it off to “some virus” or throw wastebasket diagnosis at the patient because they can’t help, which is fine if they could admit it and perhaps offer some guidance. If it’s not a clearly identifiable pathogen or imbalance they can throw medicine at, or an organ to remove, they feel like it should be ignored. Ultimately they all seem to want to land on psychiatric meds when the patient persists.
At least naturopaths offer some answers for supportive care, even if the thinking is often wishful and there are outright snake oil salesman.
Last thing I’ll say is that I’m discovering the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects are undervalued here. While the mechanisms may not be fully understood yet, it has been proven that positive outlook, meditation, and/or other tools can have a positive impact on the immune system, comparatively, and surely on quality of life.
If there is no definitive diagnose, no cure, and no clear treatment, one should at least bolster these aspects of their life. I feel like many who suffer from these illnesses would benefit from support in these areas.
Yes, most doctors don’t have much to offer for conditions like ME/CFS, though at least in the US there are a dozen or two ME/CFS specialists that know what they are doing, and can often help by means of the correct viral testing and use of antivirals. For those with ME/CFS linked to herpesviruses such as EBV, HHV-6 and cytomegalovirus, there are good antivirals. ME/CFS linked to enteroviruses is more problematic to treat due to lack of good antivirals.
I don’t know if you have seen my ME/CFS Roadmap for Testing and Treatment, but at the bottom of the page it lists some of the leading ME/CFS specialist doctors. Dr John Chia is one of the few doctors that are good at treating enterovirus ME/CFS, though Dr Nancy Klimas also has expertise in this area. If you have herpesvirus ME/CFS, then there are more doctors that are good with that.
A good approach to treating ME/CFS is getting some medical treatment, but only from these ME/CFS specialists, and also experimenting with supplements, and trying to find things that may help. There is a list in the roadmap of supplements that have been show in studies to have some mild benefit for ME/CFS.
However, if you only have very mild symptoms that would not quite be classed as ME/CFS, it may be a little over the top to see one of these ME/CFS doctors. ME/CFS varies greatly in severity, and there is a scale of mild, moderate and severe ME/CFS . Mild means still usually able to work, but you come home so exhausted that you can only just really cook and then go to sleep. You will not have energy for any further activity, and usually you will have cut out most of your social activities due to the exhaustion — that’s mild ME/CFS. Then things get worse if you progress to moderate or severe ME/CFS.
Carbon Coyote, I appreciate that you are trying to help.
I had a big interest in health and alternative medicine before I caught the virus that triggered my ME/CFS. When I first became ill after catching this virus, I thought that my knowledge of supplements, herbs, and also my background education in science (though not medical science), would help me defeat it.
But once you are hit with a serious disease, you realize how hard these things are to tackle, and I’ve become somewhat humbled from this experience, in the sense that I now understand that defeating or preventing disease is not as easy as the alternative health community would have you believe. People sometimes complain of the “arrogance of science”, but you find an equal, well not so much arrogance, but perhaps naivety in the alternative health community, who think that tackling serious disease can be achieved just with a few herbs or supplements (a view I admit I also used to subscribe to before I was hit with a serious disease).
Of course, supplements can still help, if you take the time to explore them, and I’ve found quite a few that help me tackle my symptoms to some degree. But it’s going to take advancements in medical science over the next few hundred years to really eradicate these serious illnesses.
I apologize for being a little sharp earlier; sometimes with the high fatigue levels from ME/CFS I lose patience when there is too much quackery posted; but I am just trying to encourage scientific discussions here.
Do you suffer from any of the symptoms or conditions detailed on this website, by the way?
Did this ever impact your libido and/or ability to perform?
The virus’s physical effects on erectile ability were relatively minor, but the effects on libido / sexual desire in the mental sense were much more significant; but ME/CFS is known for low libido.
Sorry, Hip …. I just now noticed you left me a comment. No worries, I’m sure this post gets hit with all sorts of quackery. It must be taxing moderating this thing, lol.
Yes, I’ve had several of the problems you’ve outlined, but I now know that I have Dermatomyositis, and it is hell. I’ve had small gut issues for years (bloating, gas, distended stomach, etc.), but never tied it to my symptoms till I started studying leaky gut, and voila!
Once you break down your mucosal layer that protects the one cell thick epithelial lining of the gut, every pathogen in town starts penetrating that barrier and getting directly into the bloodstream and wreaks havoc and Autoimmune issues.
Something that may interest you: if you’re not eating enough resistant starches, your gut bacteria cannot ferment/digest them to create butyrate, which stimulates goblet cells and other bacteria to produce more mucus. Butyrate is the primary fuel source for the epithelial lining. When you eat resistant starches that cannot be digested in the small intestines, they make their way to the large intestines where bacteria ferment/digest them to produce more mucus to keep that mucosal layer nice and thick at all times to keep out unwanted pathogens.
If you aren’t feeding them a good daily supply of resistant starch they cannot produce butyrate, and what THAT happens, the immune system believes the environment has been taken over by non acid producing pathogens like Candida, and launches a full-on attack on the good gut bacteria believing it must be bad because it isn’t producing butyrate. But they aren’t producing butyrate because we aren’t feeding them resistant starches: https://youtu.be/IgpVv7Vn5p0
I tried taking resistant starch for a few months but without noticing any benefits. Also tried the Clostridium butyricum (Miyarisan) probiotic which specifically makes butyrate, but without seeing any positive effects (though I know a few ME/CFS patients who did well on this probiotic).
This study strongly supports my gumshoe investigation findings about CFS seemingly relating to disruption in the automnomous nervous system and impacts the HPA axis:
The frustrating people is that very few people are looking into WHY. I believe it is a dysfunctional reaction to chronic/persistent infection in the body.
Dr Jacob Teitelbaum would often talk of the role of a dysfunctional hypothalamus in ME/CFS. Though brainstem dysfunction is also present.
Glad to hear the treatments had success. Which particular treatments did you use, the selenium and N-acetyl-glucosamine?
Hip and others – what have you noticed in regards to Uveitis in the eyes? Have any develop?
I am not aware of anyone with this virus who developed uveitis, but enteroviruses can certainly cause this.
Not so much full Uveitis, but increased vein growth in the eyes?
Have you tried CBD oil?
You must be new here… :)
Check this out:
Have you ever tried this type of energy healing methodology?
Yes, I have; it’s nonsense. Avoid.
Hi Hip, I found this on the internet. This person claims to have a cure for the virus on this site. I have cut and past the article below. Please let us now if this is a true cure or just a hoax to get money out of those suffering from this virus:
I-Treatment against Coxsackie A and B and Mood Viruses
Dr Richard Ellis, MA, DPhil (Oxon)
Who am I? Contact
Mood Virus and Coxsackie A and B Viruses
I have a number of treatments against viruses. As a result of my work I became infected with the Mood Virus (AKA the chronic sore throat virus see details here). This virus comes on very quickly in a few hours, and is an RNA virus. It seems to be an unknown type of Coxsackie virus which persists indefinitely. It attacks the immune system at the thymus gland (just above the heart), and is particularly nasty if you have other infections. For example it makes Lyme disease much worse and probably TB. Fortunately I now have treatments for this and other Coxsackie A and B viruses.
When I caught this virus, I had already done a lot of work on viruses, helped two children overcome HIV and myself and other people of the Epstein Barr virus. So I immediately resolved to cure myself of this mood virus. I had to develop the treatment which took some time, and then I became free of it. I caught it a few more times from patients, but each time I improved the treatment and cleared it.
I have since helped a number of other people with this virus. A few clients had laboratory tests done which showed they had Coxsackie A or B viruses. With further testing I was able to confirm that the Mood virus is a type of Coxsackie virus. With slight modifications to the treatment, I now have treatments for normal Coxsackie A and B viruses as well.
Treatments against Coxsackie A & B and Mood Viruses
The Mood Virus comes in primarily through the thyroid and thymus glands (and associated centres), but also through the pituitary gland and spleen. It affects the DNA and the will power, which is important in regulating the immune system. It affects the endocrine system. It can cause sub-clinical viral meningitis. It has a powerful effect on the throat area, as people who have it well-know. It seriously disrupts the immune system at the thymus gland. It damages the DNA in the white blood cells, especially associated with the thymus and spleen. It disrupts the relationship between RNA and DNA, a bit like HIV. And it causes inflammation, and affects the joints where it causes arthritis.
The treatment is not a chemical. You cannot kill viruses with drugs. For years I have been developing a system of quantum or spiritual healing based upon living waters and living information. This is non-toxic, non-chemical, natural approach, which is very gentle but effective. I have now eliminated bacterial, viral and fungal infections. Viruses such as EBV, CMV, H1N1, HHV6, Coxsackie A and B viruses and others can now be overcome.
The method involves boosting your immune system in a number of different ways. When the immune system is strong enough, the virus will go. I have now demonstrated this for the above viruses. The boosts required are different for each virus, because they each cause different damage and immune suppression in your body. The treatments are as follows:
The Mood virus treatment consists of 3 small boxes of remedies. Each box contains 15 small bottles in three rows. You take a dose of each of the 5 remedies in the first row in the morning, then of each in the second row later in the day. And then a dose each of the remedies in the last row towards the end of the day. Then on the second day, you take the second box in the same way. Then on the third day you take the third box in the same way. And on the fourth day you go back to the first box. In this way you take all the remedies in a three day cycle, and the treatment should last for 18 to 21 weeks. In practice the virus is likely to have gone long before this. It costs £315 plus shipping.
Coxsackie A virus
The treatment for the Coxsackie A virus consists of that for the Mood virus plus ten extra remedies in a separate box. You could take it in a modified three day cycle or a 4 day cycle. The cost is £385 plus shipping.
Coxsackie B virus
The treatment for the Coxsackie B viruses consists of that for the Mood virus plus 4 extra remedies in the same three boxes (which reduces shipping costs) You can take them in a slightly modified 3 day cycle. The cost is £343 plus shipping. Thanks wjrf
I know the website that you are quoting, it’s linked to in the post just above yours. It’s just nonsense, do not waste your money.
There is a new antiviral coming out in around 2 years or so that should eliminate this virus from the body. It’s called Rega Compound A. This antiviral completely eradicates coxsackievirus B4 infection in mice.
Thanks Hip, I figured this was money making scheme. I figured you would know for sure. I’m happy to hear about the upcoming antiviral, I’ve been praying for a cure. I’m not affected so much from the virus now, thanks mostly to your recommended treatments on your page. My issue is I want to date again, but I don’t want to contaminate anyone else. As of now, it’s just dinner and a movie and back home alone :) I’m looking forward to being normal again. Thanks for supporting and guiding us through this!
In all fairness, can you tell us if it is something you have personal experience with or are just assuming?
Developing an antiviral drug just for one virus is something that takes a large team of scientists working hard for decades, and the final cost of development can be as much as half a billion. Though if you think that one guy with no biological training can develop effective treatments in his kitchen that “eliminated bacterial, viral and fungal infections”, you are certainly welcome to try his expensive products.
I certainly understand your position and skepticism, and am not 100% a believer. But here are some points from my own learning process, and my email conversations with Richard from this site:
– Its a different approach. He is not a medical doctor, but a physicist
– From what I can gather, medical science mostly fails to deal with viruses, except for a select few such as HIV where massive attention and money was directed for decades. The ‘treatment’ for most viruses is ‘supportive’ – ie. stay hydrated while we watch your body hopefully take care of it
– Medical science still does not understand much about various illnesses, for example why certain people clear viruses X% of the time while others do not.
– Medicine seems to mostly handle bacterial infections, and even there is beginning to fail as over-prescription of medication is creating drug-resistant super strains.
– In regards to Richard’s approach specifically: I saw a similar type of remedy mentioned in another forum. The individual had gone to a Lyme clinic in Japan I believe it was, where they Pulse tested various remedies until the body reacted to one. I believe the treatment helped that patient. This is also Richard’s approach (though the pulse testing seems to require someone familiar and practiced with it to do effectively)
– In his words, the problem with medical science is ‘it ignores the life force’ – we are just beginning to understand the world of energy and the unseen forces that go beyond biology
– His remedies work to strengthen the immune system against the specific pathogens, not to specifically attack the pathogens themselves
Again, I’m not saying I’m a believer, but I am testing them. Only problem is I’m not sure what I have. But i certainly think it could be worth someone testing if they are sure they have this specific virus, if for no other reason than to cross every T and dot every I.
Claiming that you have tapped into some “life force” is a lucrative approach. Uri Geller made all his money this way.
Hello Hip: I need your advice. I am pretty sure I have this virus, like crepe like wrinkling on hands, random stomach pains and bloating, abdominal weight gain, and frequent episodes of nasal congestion. Recently, I have to take on primary responsibility for a baby and I am paranoid that I will pass this on to the baby by frequent interaction. In your experience, do any infants exhibit symptoms of this virus and is this a serious issue?
I know several parents with this virus, and one infant showed some symptoms of the virus, but other infants did not. Generally viral infections are less severe in young children than they are in adults.
May I ask you if you found any medicine, or anything helpful for abdominal fat? I am working really hard to lose it, but only my muscles are getting stronger.
I am taking:
Selenomethionine 300 mcg daily
N-acetyl-glucosamine 500 mg daily
Horsetail brew 2 times daily
Also I would like to thank you for what you do. You changed my life.
No, unfortunately not. The abdominal fat may be due in part to leptin resistance, so you might consider trying African mango (Irvingia gabonensis) for that. I did not notice much when I tried this herb.
Hi Hip. Do you (or anyone) know what can help with the gum recession and teeth issues? I’m not sure what the cause is so unsure how to approach it – is it overgrowth of bad bacteria? I was reading about probiotic toothpaste, might give that a shot…
Periostat, which inhibits the MMP enzymes which destroy gum tissue.
Could you tell me if Swanson SeLECT Selenomethionine is yeast-free?
I tried african mango with hard workout and I lost 1 kilogram, mostly from belly. It seems to work
Have a look on their website. Or email them.
I use Swanson SeMSC Selenium now, which is cheap and yeast-free and just as good as selenomethionine.
In a search for new drugs to treat viral infections, scientists at the University of Utah School of Medicine found that a medicine routinely used to treat heart failure, spironolactone, has an unexpected ability to block infection by Epstein-Barr virus ”
I didn’t use it yet
but I would like to give try…
It will not work for EBV in vivo. It’s only being considered as a molecular lead for developing new antiviral drugs for EBV. There are already several available drugs that are effective for EBV.
What if the virus caused a gene mutation in copper metabolism to protect itself from macrophages who use copper to create radical oxygen species?
A copper deficiency/toxicity (in different areas of the body) could explain a lot of the symptoms.
The Yin and Yang of Copper During Infection
Congenital cataract, muscular hypotonia, developmental delay and sensorineural hearing loss associated with a defect in copper metabolism
Proximal Limb Weakness in a Patient with Celiac Disease: Copper Deficiency, Gluten Sensitivity, or Both as the Underlying Cause?
Using Copper to Improve the Well-Being of the Skin
I have a question about this disease. Many patients are diagnosed as 《vegetative system dysfunction》in China. Is there a disease called 《vegetative system dysfunction》in your country?
The vegetative nervous system is an old name for the autonomic nervous system (ANS). Is that what they mean in China by vegetative system dysfunction?
Yes. Vegetative nervous system = ANS. There are thousands of patients, some of whom are unknown pathogens, but they are not aware of the disease because the hospital cannot diagnose. Doctors told them is Vegetative System Dysfunction, they use anti-anxiety drugs but can’t cure for a long time.
Someone said that there is no such disease outside China. It is a conspiracy of our government, so I want to check it out.
such disease = vegetative system dysfunction
Patients who developed myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) from a viral infection with enteroviruses or herpesviruses often developed dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system (called dysautonomia). There are various types of dysautonomia, but a very common one is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), which the dysautonomia I developed after catching my virus.
Many ME/CFS patients have POTS, or may have similar dysautonomia diseases such as neurally mediated hypotension (NMH) or orthostatic hypotension (OH). POTS, NMH and OH are all caused by dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system, and often appear after viral infection.
It is not clear to me whether the virus described on this website is the same as the Chinese HIV-like virus. Many symptoms are the same, but there are also some differences in symptoms. For example, nobody with my virus ever experienced chest pain, but chest pain is common with the Chinese virus.
The questions above are interesting and I think starting to get somewhere. Personally, I believe that this illness and similar ones somehow attack connective tissue, or otherwise cause the body to metabolize it somehow.
People all report weight loss and skin thinning. In my own experience, this was preceded by the body breaking down fat (ketones in urine). Then people report weight gain in the belly, indicating a hormone problem.
The skin problems and mental impacts seem to suggest that there are negative impacts on the skin, and nervous system. I believe these could all be caused by an attack on connective tissue, which is throughout our body. I just don’t know why or how. Either by directly attacking the tissue, or messing up hormones in the gut that change the way the body stores fat.
“DBH is a member of a small unique class of copper-containing hydroxylases that are found in eukaryotes, and all play a critical role in the biosynthesis of neurotransmitters and hormones.”
The crystal structure of human dopamine β-hydroxylase at 2.9 Å resolution
“We report the case of an elderly woman with severe dysautonomic orthostatic hypotension in whom a deficit in dopamine B hydroxylase has been established.”
Dopamine B hydroxylase deficiency responsible for severe dysautonomic orthostatic hypotension in an elderly patient.
“Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS) is an orthostatic intolerance due to dysautonomia.”
Reversible postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome
Hi Hip, sorry for offtopic
Do you use any kind of diet to feel better?
No. Some people with ME/CFS do well on a ketogenic diet, but that can be hard to follow.
Have you ever tried Fluoxetine as a treatment against CBV/ do you know the effectiveness of it against CBV? Recent studies show positive results with certain types, ie B1, B2, B3, B4.
I have not tried it myself, but I know that Dr Chia was experimenting with fluoxetine to treat his ME/CFS patients with CVB infections, but I did not hear any positive reports, so I assume it did not work.
IV High Dose Vitamin C for Chronic EBV
what do you think ? does it work for other kind of viruses..
“Dr. Oubre’s Custom Protocols (10 infusions)
Immune Recovery Protocol (High Dose Vitamin C) $2,600”
No, thanks. ;)
I have not seen any studies or suggestions indicating high dose vitamin C might help viruses other than EBV.
Taurine seemed to help me a lot. 500 1-3x/ day. Also removed caffeine, it seems to cause fatigue and make symptoms worse. There is a study showing depletion of taurine in gut of CFS.
this md doctor tells high dose iv vitamin c cure lot of different virus infection. he gives example.
”Thomas Levy, MD – Vitamin C Past, Present, Future Applications-cure to all known virus, bacterial infections.
antidote to all known toxins. Amazing. WATCH VERY CLOSELY AT 25:30. Thats right..he said it..ALL KNOWN TOXINS. ”
Hip, if you drink red wine (dark one), do you have heavy staining on your teeth and tongue?
In 2003, I almost died from the virus. My immune system has been suppressed ever since and though I do have GERD and Acid Reflux, I don’t have problems as long as I take Nexium. Which I’ve been on now since 1996. I have a constant sore throat. The doctors have provided no answers and are lost when it comes to all the illnesses I present with all the time. But as far as symptoms, I’ve experienced everything listed and more. I’ve also had pericarditis and myocarditis. If you have any answers please let me know.
Some potent new antiviral drugs from the Rega Institute for this virus will become available in around 2 years or so from now: see here.
Hip, are after 5-15 years are you still transmit this pathogen? What about relationships? Have you had any them since you realized that you have this pathogen? Did this instantly infected them too?
I do not know, as unfortunately I am too ill with ME/CFS to go out dating.
Has anyone tried HGH or Testosterone to help with any symptoms?
Im asking because im dealing with the same issues now for three months……looking to explore anything that helps…… also looking to get to expose this. On some major youtube channels. I know youtube videos have been mentioned here before…… We need to come together…. power in numbers ..we need to get this on a major youtube channel to expose it. One with lots of followers the mainstream media isn’t going to cover it. Please reply if you are with me. Please tell me where you are from. im in Texas
How did you catched this pathogen? And how it started in a first days and what symptoms are you appearing right now?
Here in the UK there is an epidemic of anxiety and depression that has arisen over the last 10 years, even in very young children. It’s possible that the virus described on this website is the cause.
Hip, when did the ME/CFS hit you?
Second, I received this recommendation for something completely unrelated from a newsletter I’ve followed for many years. Look at the claims from this lab. Seems like something some of us should try?
ME/CFS hit after the virus caused a brain infection around 2 years after I first caught it.
Aperiomics may detect the virus if you can supply a sample of infected tissue. In ME/CFS patients the stomach tissues are infected, and a gastroenterologist sticking an endoscope down your throat and snipping off some small samples of stomach tissue might work for Aperiomics.
But I am reasonably sure the virus I caught iS CVB4.
Do you felt flu-illness all your period since incubation period? Or it was like sometimes flu periods and sometimes it was almost OK?
Please guys, research mms/cds/chlordioxide. It worked wonders for my condition and can work for you too, if you dont believe the trolls on the net who compare it to chlor (which is like conparing water with hydrogen. IF there is a pathogen, it will kill it. Together with dmso, you can reach any point in the body.
I’ve seen a few viral ME/CFS patients try MMS (chlorine dioxide), but not obtain any benefit. However, I’ve heard some anecdotal stories of MMS helping Lyme disease to a degree. Borrelia may be more susceptible to bleaching agents such as chlorine dioxide, compared to viruses. Whether long term use of chlorine dioxide might create some increases in cancer risk or cause some other bodily harm is not known.
Then again, it seems to do more then just kill bacteria. I had a callus on my foot that was getting worse over the years to a point, where every step did hurt. I tried a lot of different things, nothing helped. My doctor prescribed me some acid, which opened the hard skin and from there on i had an open wound, i humped around for months with sharp pains, couldnt find any solution.
My gf, who takes cds (next to many other things) atm for her cancer, finally told me to try this stuff for my spot (i didnt even think that it might help) but after just one use of a few drops the spot was CLOSED the next day. One more foot bath in cds and the pain was gone as well.
What the heck do i know… but this made me wonder
how cds actually works.
Try taurine 500mg 1-2x daily for a month or two if well tolerated. It may be depleted from infection, vitamim deficiencies, enzyme deficiencies or other causes.
PLEASE WATCH VIDEO COMMENT….. LETS MAKE OUR ISSUE KNOWN
Are you still suffering from this illness? Please comment on the video and be herd… the more comments people see the more people are going to start to come out about this Illness
I’m trying to get in to see an infectious disease dr. I don’t know how long this will take but I will update as I learn more.
Mp Thanks for the quick response. I hope you find answers. keep us posted sir
Everyday imSuffering, if you are experiencing sore throat, headaches, brain fog, word finding difficulties, fatigue, these may be the symptoms of myalgic encephalomyelitis / chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). You might like to consider whether you have developed ME/CFS from your virus (check the symptoms of ME/CFS online).
ME/CFS is linked to several viruses, including coxsackievirus B, echovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, HHV-6 and parvovirus B19 and others.
I’m going to an infectious disease doctor. My wife is a DPT and she recommended the doctor. They don’t just throw meds at you, they try to find the root cause and not just treat symptoms.
Hip …. Thanks for reaching out. I do suffer from a lot of the symptoms you just mentioned. I don’t think im to the point of cfs yet. I am still able to get around and do some things, but I don’t feel like ill ever be the same. I was a strong active person a go getter and now I just sit at home like a bump on a log. with all my aches,pains and other issues. I think our viruses might be the same but effect people different. but from the info I have gathered if we were going to call them a different virus I have the one from china
Eveyone ….. please comment on my video, I am working with a few other people that are dealing with the same issues about making videos as well… We need your comments saying your dealing with the same issues. we need to make this known. Make others feel comfortable about coming out with it. So Lets let them they are not alone…… Thanks Hip for starting this page and thank you everyone for listening
Infectious disease doctors are no good a detecting the chronic viral infections linked to ME/CFS. Only an ME/CFS specialist understands how to properly test for these infections. So bear that in mind if you have ME/CFS symptoms.
Everyday imSuffering ME/CFS can vary greatly in severity from one person to the next; mild patients are still able to work part-time or full-time, whereas moderate patients are housebound, and severe patients are bedbound.
One of the classic symptoms of ME/CFS is post-exertional malaise (PEM): this is where when you exert yourself either physically or mentally, then the next day you feel much worse. If you have PEM, it is a good indicator of ME/CFS.
But ME/CFS is not linked to one virus, it’s linked to several. Often people who develop ME/CFS from a viral infection were chronically stressed at the time (chronic stress weakens immunity), or may have been recently exposed to a toxic factor such as toxic mold in their home, or to pesticides. These toxic factors may allow the viral infection to trigger ME/CFS.
Hip i do agree your theory of this being a strain of the coxsackievirus I did get mouth sores early on.
Hip …. Didnt you develop this after a sexual encounter as well?
I caught my virus from kissing on a first date; there was no sex involved. That’s when I developed the chronic sore throat as a first symptom.
But then many months later, when some spittle on my fingers made contact with my urethra, this transmitted the infection to the urethral mucous membranes. Years ago there were also some women on this website who reported gynecological issues from the virus. So I think this virus is capable of infecting any mucous membrane, whether inside the mouth, or genital mucous membranes. I would not consider this virus to be a sexually transmitted infection as such, even though it can be caught from kissing and probably oral sex, because this virus also transmits via normal social contact by saliva.
If your symptoms are more like the so-called Chinese HIV-like virus, then the good news is that most people I know who caught that virus started feeling much better after a year or so. The symptoms do not fully disappear, but they are reduced to just very minor symptoms after about a year.
Though if you developed ME/CFS from your virus, usually this unfortunately becomes a lifelong disease, although a small percentage do recover.
Your story sounds a lot like mine. urethra was my first symptom then the mouth… The only diff I see between the two is Chest pain …. im pretty sure my son has contracted this. im concerned about his development. He is just a toddler. Drs wont listen .. you know that story.
In the case of CVB, medical literature will tell you that this virus can cause four different types of infection which can each lead to chest pain:
myocarditis — infection and inflammation of the heart muscle.
pericarditis — infection and inflammation of the heart lining.
pleurisy — infection and inflammation of the pleura, which is lining of the lungs and chest.
pleurodynia (Bornholm disease) — infection and inflammation of the intercostal muscles and the muscles attaching the diaphragm to the chest wall, in which any movement of the rib cage causes pain.
Out of these, I observed myocarditis and pericarditis occur in several people who caught my Coxsackie B4 virus. One of the symptoms of these is shortness of breath, which you mentioned in your video, so myocarditis might be something to consider. Here are the symptoms of myocarditis.
What do you do now for a living? When this pathogen hit your brain after 2 years and you became very sick. Are you having any support from the government in the UK?
I am experimenting LIPOSOMAL VITAMIN C 1 gr. a day ,last 3 mounts . my wife and couple of my friends are using too.
for me, less tired , less brain fog , better looking skin . My friends tell me same thing . make them keeps going all day. less tired..
Because pure vitamin c heart my stomach, I choose LIPOSOMAL VITAMIN C. I am using ” Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C ” brand, kind of pricey. “www.livonlabs.com”
i heard lot of good thing about high dose vitamin c , now i am believer too. i read absorption rate for
LIPOSOMAL VITAMIN C % 80 . and regular vitamin c is %15- 20 . so i am taking 800 mg vitamin c every day , recommended amount 60 mg …more than 10 times recommended value of daily amount.
also last one thing in the .livonlabs company user book said , in two weeks make your skin tighter, in six weeks make your wrinkles disappear . i think they telling truth.
Thanks for your report on liposomal vitamin C, Hidir. It’s one of the things I have not yet tried.
I used to be a regular on this site, but became frustrated with no one believing me, including doctors telling me it was just my anxiety. So….this is the first time I’ve been here in about 7 years. Hip, it is good to see that you are still providing support.
Have you heard of anyone developing melanoma after years of fighting this illness? I developed melanoma like moles within the last couple of years and the doctor biopsied them yesterday, stating that they looked like melanoma and that they would get back to me with the results in a few days. I waited so long to get them biopsied because of my past experience with the doctors.
I have had this illness approximately 12-13 years.
Hi Rusty. I developed several seborrheic keratosis spots on my skin. These looked like they might be melanoma, but a dermatologist said they were seborrheic keratosis which is nothing to worry about.
Edit to my comment above, I was not frustrated with people here not believing me. I was frustrated with friends/family/doctors.
After 15 years’ illness, this is the only place I’ve found my many and disparate symptoms corralled under Coxsackie, so thanks for publishing this. I’ve experienced an appalling disinterest from UK medics, even when I had blood blisters in my soft palate and life was a living death.
My question is whether, especially in the case of prolonged duration, anyone’s considered in this scenario their haplotypes, typically associated with so-called autoimmunity? Medics only took an interest in me after I insisted on being tested for HLA-B27 to find I was positive. That said, I have yet to broach long-term viral infection with them.
On the subject of liposomal vitamin C, Lipolife (lipolife.co.uk) uses sunflower lecithins to encapsulate the vitamin C which, as a female, would be my preference over soy lecithin encapsulation. It’s similarly priced to the one mentioned here earlier but stats on its website indicate it exceeds the other’s efficacy. It also indicates that the DIY method of producing lipo C isn’t effective, which may of course be perceived as aggressive marketing. Question is, if you’re severely debilitated, have you got time, energy & inclination to shop around for an ultrasonic cleaner, etc?
I’ve seen (either here or on Dr Chia’s website) that Coxsackie doesn’t destroy cells but exists within them and so wonder if the fat encapsulation of lipo C can penetrate the cells’ membranes to reach the virus? Does anyone of a technical disposition have any thoughts on that?
Louisa, would you mind emailing me at email@example.com ? I’d like to discuss this further
Hip, I am wondering if the Dominican Republic deaths are tied to enterovirus infection (like a more virulent form of Coxsackie B). They all seem to have a combination of fever, stomach cramps and heart attacks. CVB is notorious for these. Scary!
Hi Hip, I too have many of the symptoms you describe on this website. And thanks to you and this website I have found something that seems to work quite well in me: Oxymatrine. It’s still early days though as I’ve only been on it for about a month.
Since Oxymatrine works so well I’m also increasingly convinced by the validity of Dr. Chia’s theory (and findings) that these symptoms can be – and often are – caused by an enteroviral infection. Since research is being done into ME/CFS by a number of highly regarded scientists in the End ME/CFS Now project, I was hoping some research was also being done into the enteroviral theory. Regrettably, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I understand – I believe from one of your posts on PR – that Dr. Chia has been in touch with Dr. Davis on this potential cause. I’d very much like to reinforce the message towards Dr Davis and team that a great many patients support this route of enquiry.
However, whenever I try and post something about this on PR my posts get deleted almost instantly, without any explanation whatsoever. I was just wondering if you could shed some light onto the issue – you can reach me through a reply here or send me an email on firstname.lastname@example.org
Thanks you so much for all you’ve done and looking forward to your message.
Traditionally enteroviruses as a cause of ME/CFS have been ignored in the US (with the exception of Dr Chia), with most ME/CFS doctors in the US mainly interested in herpesvirus causes of ME/CFS (ie, EBV, HHV-6 and CMV causes).
There was a lot of British research on enterovirus in ME/CFS in the 1970s to 1990s, but after that the UK disgracefully started viewing ME/CFS as an “all in the mind” psychologically caused condition, and since then there has been very little serious ME/CFS research coming from the UK. So it’s only Dr Chia who is holding the fort now on enterovirus.
You can see all the British enterovirus research (as well as Chia’s research) here: https://me-pedia.org/wiki/List_of_enterovirus_infection_studies
Prof Ron Davis is planning to see if ME/CFS patients are infected with RNA viruses. Enterovirus comes under the RNA virus category (whereas herpesviruses are DNA viruses). So Davis is on the case.
It may be that ME/CFS involves a viral infection, but it may be that it also requires other factors to be present before that viral infection leads to ME/CFS. Prof Davis is investigating multiple angles on ME/CFS causes, not just viruses, and I think this is a good thing. But I would also like to see more enterovirus research. I’d like to see more virologists getting interested in ME/CFS, and looking at viral causes.
In around 1 or 2 years, a brand new potent antiviral for coxsackievirus B will become available (see antiviral section of the Treatments page of this website for info). If this new antiviral is able to greatly improve the symptoms of patients with enterovirus ME/CFS, then it will provide good evidence that enterovirus is a causal factor in ME/CFS.
Hi Hip, thanks for your elaborate answer and great to hear that Dr. Davis is actually on the case :) I have read up on the Rega compounds but I understand the formulas (or the intellectual property) has been sold to a large pharmaceutical company? Might be a good idea to reach out them as well to reinforce that there is an active demand.
Also, yes, a combination of factors may have to be present for ME/CFS to develop or to be susceptible to this virus. However, in view of contagion (stopping people from being contagious by fighting the virus) treatment and research into viral origins could be very valuable.
Do you believe that the contagious component is in this specific enterovirus? For psychological purposes it would be such a relief knowing you are not unknowingly infecting others.
I really don’t know if the coxsackievirus B4 I caught is a more virulent strain of CVB4, and is chronically contagious because of the chronic sore throat it often creates, which may be constantly shedding low levels of viral particles in the saliva infecting others.
Or whether this type of chronic contagiousness is normal for CVB4, and normal for some of the coxsackievirus B in general (there are 6 serotypes of CVB, named CVB1 to CVB6).
But other viruses too also pass from human to human, as we are born virus-free, but slowly collect viruses throughout our lives.
I was early to judge: my post has been approved, would very much appreciate your thoughts on this: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/we-are-so-close-petition-to-dr-davis-to-include-viral-research.76820/
Oh PS: have you ever tried S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione? It’s a form of Glutathione with very high bio-availability. It’s pricey but the best energy booster I know of
Have not yet tried that version of glutathione, though I’ve always wanted to; I was hoping that the price would go down. Interesting that you find it boosts energy.
I’ve tried transdermal glutathione, which does not really do much for me, and N-acetyl-cysteine which boosts intracellular glutathione, but again it does not do much for me.
I take it in combination with Oxymatrine and Inosine – all in one go – usually three capsules each which comes down to 300mgs of A-Acetyl-L-Glutathione, 900mg of Oxymatrine and 1500mg of Inosine.
I’ve found this cocktail can turn a 20% (heavy PEM) day into an about 70-80% energy day in which I’m able to function relatively normally, so worth it for me.
PS Hip: would it be an idea to create a mailing-list for visitors of this site which only sends out essential updates – such as the introduction of the Rega compounds?
I did have such a mailing list at one stage, but I have not had any important news to send out for many years.
The other issue is that I suspect lots of people here will have a different cause for their symptoms; I suspect it will only be a minority that has the same virus as me.
Not many people find this site either these days. In Aug 2018 Google changed their search results algorithm such that unofficial medical websites like this one become relegated very low in the search results, and official authoritative medical sites are placed at the top of the search results. This is part of Google’s campaign to counter fake news. So these days when you type symptoms such as “chronic sore throat” into Google, you no longer get this website coming up.
Unfortunately also, you don’t always get scientifically or technically minded people here (unlike the Phoenix Rising forum, which is has a high proportion of techy people). So then it becomes hard to explain to people for example the intricacies of viral testing.
Very few people here have actually gone to get tested with the sensitive ARUP Lab coxsackievirus B and echovirus antibody tests that are detailed on the FAQ page of this site. Admittedly these tests are expensive, at around $440 each, but I presume some people will be able to get them via their medical insurance. There is also a lab in Greece that offers a similar CVB test for €60, which is very cheap.
Thanks again for your elaborate and very helpful reply. I’m truly inspired by your perseverance in researching this and the level of knowledge you have attained.
I live in The Netherlands, for the ARUP testing I will probably need a referral from an American physician to get those done, do you know? The lab in Greece sounds promising and would the more realistic option. Will look into that.
I hear what you’re saying on the Google (Medic) update. It’s frustrating since I often find the results surfacing in Google either superficial in nature or just restating what can be read on numerous other websites.
Even though I am motivated to research scientific literature I’m having to invest all the energy that I do still have to keep financially afloat – and independent. Also, I have to say that I fear I would become consumed by this illness and negativity by going into full-out research mode. Which is why I have all the more respect for how you approach this.
ARUP Lab will accept serum samples from abroad if the lab tests have been ordered by your local doctor. Likewise with the Hellenic Pasteur Institute (HPI) in Greece, they will accept the samples if ordered by your local doctor. HPI seems like a better option, given their low price.
I was actually tested by a lab in the Netherlands, UMC Utrecht, who used to offer a sensitive CVB test using the neutralization method, the method used at ARUP and the HPI. Unfortunately that lab stopped offering the neutralization method (which requires a lot of lab work to perform), and switched to a simpler method called complement fixation, which is much less sensitive, and if I remember rightly does not detect the individual CVB serotypes 1 to 6.
If you have ME/CFS linked to CVB, you should find you have high antibody levels on these neutralization tests. If you don’t have ME/CFS but caught this virus, your antibody levels will probably not be high, but the levels will be sufficient to indicate that you have caught this virus.
I find the DuckDuckGo search engine pretty good, and use it sometimes when Google fails me. Unlike Google you can still pick up websites like this one with DuckDuckGo.
Hi Hip and any others reading along, I’ve called with the Hellenic Pasteur Institute – which was quite difficult since you are presented with a Greek IVR :p
However, I managed to get a hold of an English speaking staff member. Upon asking if you need a referral from a local physician: the answer is no, however this lady did mention this applied when visiting the institute (which I have an intention of doing)
When asked if they offer Coxsackie B viral testing the answer was they offer the complete Coxsackie B1-B6 testing, however this lady said the ELISA method was used. Which, I believe, is a different method than the more sensitive neutralisation method you speak of.
They gave me an email address in which I can communicate directly with physicians doing the lab testing. I intend to send them an email making sure they offer the most sensitive method.
@Hip: I know I’m asking a lot but how would you ask – in a way that only allows for a clear and unambiguous answer, if they offer the right kind of testing?
Thank you so much!
When I wrote by post to the HPI lab in March 2018, they told me that their test is a neutralization one:
“In our laboratory we utilize a cell culture neutralization assay (CCID50) to measure the antibody titer against virus coxsakie B (B1-B6), in serum samples. The minimum serum quantity needed is 200 μL. We do not offer neutralization tests for echoviruses.The cost of the test for coxsakie virus is 68 Euros/serum. Yes, we can accept samples from UK.”
I guess it’s possible they may have changed their method since then; alternatively the staff member you spoke to might have made a mistake. I don’t know.
Here is a part of the letter that I wrote to them:
“I am writing to ask if the Hellenic Pasteur Institute has a coxsackievirus B and echovirus antibody blood serum test by the neutralization method (plaque reduction neutralization method).
I am looking for a neutralization test (but not immunofluorescence assay, ELISA, or complement fixation test), because neutralization is the most sensitive testing method for chronic enterovirus infections.”
PS: Would you happen to know of an overview of different types of viral testing just so I can build my knowledge on this front?
You have PCR, which detects the presence of the pathogen directly. There are different types of PCR, with different sensitivities. PCR on the blood is often negative in ME/CFS, because chronic CVB exists as an intracellular infection of the tissues (muscle, gut and brain tissues) in ME/CFS patients, and very little virus is found in the blood.
For this reason, in ME/CFS, antibody tests are used instead. These do not detect the pathogen directly, but measure the immune response to the pathogen. The immune system creates antibodies that specifically target the pathogen, and it is the levels of those antibodies that are measured in the blood.
In this case, even if the pathogen is hidden in the tissues of an organ, it is possible to detect this infection by testing for antibodies. There are a number of different antibody detection methods, which are listed below. Neutralization is the “gold standard” most sensitive test. Next in terms of sensitivity comes EIA/ELISA and IFA, with these both having a similar sensitivity. The least sensitive is CFT.
Viral Antibody Detection Methods:
Neutralization test (various types of neutralization test: micro-neutralization test, plaque reduction neutralization test, cytopathic effect neutralization test).
EIA (enzyme immunoassay) and ELISA (enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay). ELISA is a specific type of EIA.
IFA (immunofluorescence assay, or immunofluorescence test), also called IFT, IF.
CFT (complement fixation test), also called CF.
If you have a low-level intracellular infection like chronic CVB in just one organ, then antibody testing may not detect it. This is because the infection is at a low level, so the body does not need to make many antibodies to it. However in ME/CFS, although the CVB infection is at a low-level, it infects multiple organs and tissues, so in this case you can usually detect elevated antibody levels, if you use a very sensitive test such as the neutralization antibody test.
These days there are also new DNA/RNA sequencing methods of detecting pathogens. Like PCR they detect the pathogen directly. They are are good because they identify a pathogen by its genetic fingerprint, and can even tell you which particular strain of a pathogen you have. However, because very little virus is found in the blood in ME/CFS, if you try to use DNA/RNA sequencing methods on blood samples of ME/CFS patients, you probably will not detect any CVB, unless the patient has severe ME/CFS (in the severe cases, there is a little more virus in the blood). So for ME/CFS, the most useful tests are antibody tests.
In one of your comments, you mentioned that there was medication coming out that will likely eradicate this virus. What is the name of the medication and is it out yet?
These new antivirals which target coxsackievirus B4 are code named Rega Compound A and Rega Compound 17 (but when they are brought to market, they will be given different names). Hopefully at least one of these new drugs will be available in around 2021.
See the antiviral section of the Treatments page for more info.
Great…thanks. Also, could you remove my email address off the public comment page and put wjrf which is my original username. Thanks
Hi wjrf, nice to see you. I’ve changed it to wjrf (you probably registered for you WordPress account placing your email in username field, which is why it appears).
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