5,480 thoughts on “Comments

  1. CFS and magnesium deficiency


    The topically applied version said to be best used by the body is sold on line in several places.

    REPLY: Thanks Phooph. Personally I take transdermal magnesium all the time. You cannot get enough magnesium by the oral route: you can take take say 500 mg of magnesium by mouth daily, but go much over that dosage, and you will find it causes diarrhea. This is why you need to also take transdermal magnesium. Highly recommend.

    But I find these magnesium oils for sale are very expensive for what they are. It is much cheaper to buy some Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) from the pharmacy, which costs very little (perhaps $2), make up a VERY strong solution of these salts in tap water (or distilled water is even better), and rub just a tablespoon or two of this water on you skin every day,and let it dry. If this stings on the skin, then just dilute your solution a bit with fresh water until it does not sting.

    This transdermal magnesium sulfate remedy is given very frequently to autistic children, who seem to benefit from it. High dose magnesium is one of the most powerful natural anti-anxiety supplements.

    – Hip

  2. I am celiac (self-diagnosed at age 50), so my immune system is messed up. I have had mono, herpes zoster (Ramsay Hunt syndrome), and now perhaps this sore throat virus. I have tried many supplements over the years and what I am doing now seems to be working pretty well.

  3. I was just reading about Hip’s comments on the noncytopathic form of enteroviruses “This noncytopathic form of the virus lives within human cells, rarely breaking out of these cells into the blood and tissues.” Reading this made me think of how insulin resistance negatively affects the transport of vitamin C into cells where it is needed. Too much starch and especially sugar in the diet is not a good thing when you are fighting viruses:

    Reversing Diabetes Type II, Glucose-Ascorbate Antagonism

  4. Many thanks for taking the time to write, Wasabi.

    You have provided interesting links. I did not know for example that vitamin B1 and vitamin B3 have antiviral properties. Having read that, I think it is well worth experimenting high doses of B1 and B3.

    In terms of the collagen, my guess is that it is elastin that is being attacked by this infection, rather than collagen. This is partly because from the dermatology pictures I have seen, collagen loss produces thick long wrinkles, whereas elastin loss produces fine tiny wrinkles, and it is these fine wrinkles that I have developed. Also high elastase (the elastin-eating enzyme) is common in CFS, so this fact supports the idea that the wrinkles are probably due to loss of elastin.

  5. Problem solved: I’m allergic to my dog. Now hands are getting red and itching like crazy after playing with my dog. Makes only sense that my throat and sinus problems are related. Guess I’m going to have to get allergy shots…

    REPLY: Congratulations. It takes a while to gets answers, but when they finally arrive, it is pleasing, to say the least. Although sometimes, there can also be an underlying viral problem too: chronic infections often predispose you to allergies. However, if you fix the particular allergies you have, you can feel much better.

    – Hip

  6. Hi Hip,

    Here is some info about elastin:

    Long-term evaluation of collagen and elastin following infrared irradiation

    The first article mentioned that elastin works best in the presence of water. Could your fine skin wrinkles result from dehydration as well as elastin destruction?

    REPLY: Thanks again for the links.

    I tend to drink a lot of water, so I don’t think dehydration is a factor.

    But anyway, the situation is more complex that just that. Elastase and MMP-9, both of which eat away elastin, are actually special enzymes manufactured by many viruses and bacteria, in order for them to eat through our tissues, and thus spread themselves around our bodies. These enzymes greatly increase the virulence of these microbes. But what makes things more complicated is that our immune system cells can also secrete these two enzymes, for their own purposes.

    Two other major elastin-eating enzymes made by our bodies are MMP-2 and MMP-12.

    Another way in that elastin gets depleted is when the fibroblast cells in our skin that actually make elastin in the first place get damaged (fibroblasts can be infected by a virus, for example), so that new elastin cannot be made in the skin. Coxsackievirus does tend to infect and permanently lodge itself in fibroblasts. Note that fibroblasts, as well as making elastin, can also make elastase, so they have the capacity to both build, and remove, elastin structures, as required. So damaged fibroblasts may be pumping out too much elastase, and/or not making enough elastin.

    You would probably need a specialist type of skin biopsy to determine if the fibroblasts were damaged or infected. And unfortunately, lab tests for blood levels of MMP-9, elastase, MMP-2 and MMP-12 are also specialist tests, and I have not found a lab that does them.

    So I have no way of knowing which mechanism (or mechanisms) is causing the elastin loss.

    – Hip

  7. Hi Hip,

    I think that you might want to investigate the use of curcumin (from turmeric) made more bioavailable with piperine (from black pepper) as an elastase inhibitor. Sorry I don’t have time to provide anything more than just enough info to tease your interest to pursue this further.

    REPLY: Curcumin is an excellent suggestion. I have been using high dose (5000 mg daily) evening primrose oil as an elastase inhibitor, which when you apply directly on the skin does help.

    I did not know that curcumin could inhibit elastase. And a quick check on Google shows that it also inhibits MMP-9, so this is useful.

    Thanks again for taking the time to write.

    – Hip

  8. Hi Hip,

    You said, “just by my clinical picture, the virus which best fits my symptoms is one of the enteroviruses, probably a coxsackie B virus.”

    Check out this link about curcumin:

    Curcumin suppresses coxsackievirus B3 replication

    Adequate amounts of selenium and vitamin E may be factors as well, as “Coxsackievirus B3-resistant mice become susceptible in selenium/vitamin E deficiency”.

    REPLY: Many thanks, Wasabi. I did take curcumin (with piperine and lecithin to increase bioavailability) for several months (having read the same antiviral article that you linked to above), but I did not notice much improvement. This may be because I have a different coxsackievirus to the B3 type. There are six of them, Coxsackie B1 to B6. In long-term, low-level “smoldering” coxsackievirus infections, it is very hard to test for the presence of coxsackievirus, and even harder to find out what type of coxsackievirus you have, at least by standard lab tests.

    Some literature suggests that there is a new strain of coxsackievirus B1 going about, which is very virulent, and has caused quite a few infant fatalities each year in the US (normally coxsackievirus is not fatal). So this mutated coxsackievirus B1 is on my list of possibilities for what I have.

    – Hip

  9. Coxsackie Virus Infections

    REPLY: Thanks, Damo, for that link, which contains info on various Chinese herbs that have shown effectiveness against the coxsackievirus. I have in fact read this document before, but it contains a lot of very good stuff, so it was worth me reading it again.

    In fact this time I noticed something I did not see on my previous read: namely that the Chinese herb Bupleurum Root has a specific antiviral action against coxsackievirus B1. This is very interesting. Bupleurum is found within the herbal formula Minor Bupleurum. This herbal formula typically contains about 25% Bupleurum Root, mixed with other herbs: pinellia, scutellaria, jujube, ginseng, licorice and ginger.

    – Hip

  10. Hi Hip,

    Have you investigated the area of glyconutrients for helping you deal with CFS?

    Here is a reference to a page in a book about the effectiveness of sugars in brewer’s yeast.

    Writing about brewer’s yeast reminds me that there is a product called EpiCor that is based on food yeast that you might want to investigate.

    REPLY: I have tried the yeast polysaccharides called beta-glucans, but I have not yet tried just plain brewer’s yeast, which no doubt could be classed as a superfood, and may be good for CFS. Vegemite / Marmite is basically brewer’s yeast, in case you want to try it.

    A word about glyconutrients (glycoproteins): these are sold via multilevel marketing, and have little scientific basis.

    Do not confuse this, however, with phosphoglycolipids (“NT Factor” by Garth Nicolson, a well known CFS doctor), which do seem to improve CFS, by helping to maintain and repair cellular membranes.

    – Hip

  11. Hi Hip,

    I will avoid MLM sources of glyconutrients.

    Here is an interesting article on selenium. I have read other references to selenium helping the body against viruses. This article mentions Keshon disease: “The disease occurred

    under the selenium deficiency combined

    with infection by Coxsackie B virus and has

    been prevented by selenium supplementation.”


    REPLY: Yes, I have read that selenium has some antiviral properties. I understand that selenium is very useful if you have a coxsackievirus B myocarditis.

    Since I have seen for myself that our ‘chronic sore throat virus’ strongly attacks the heart (it has caused several heart attacks even in my small social group, and has produced both heart muscle and pericardium infections), it is probably a good idea for everyone who thinks they have this virus, which I think is a coxsackievirus B, to take daily selenium (200 mcg) to protect the heart.

    – Hip

  12. Hi Unbelievable,

    Is a liver flush or cleanse a good idea, I have been trowing down every supplement under the sun trying to get better, I had two weeks of detox foot pads, they looked yuk after being on my feet overnight. Plus in the past my acupuncturist had to work on my liver a great deal.

    So are these liver flushes safe, I have been putting it off for quite a while. What do you think.


    REPLY: Foot detox pad are a scam. If you hold one in the pure steam coming from a kettle, the pad will also turn the same dark color. It is designed to turn dark when exposed to the water from your perspiration, to make you think the pad absorbs toxins.

    As for the liver flush, I have read that people do feel better after doing this, and people say that they get clearer eyesight, better concentration, so it may well be worth trying.

    There are a lot of great herbs that support the liver. Milk thistle is a good one.

    The liver detoxifies the toxins in blood in two consecutive operations, like a production line in a factory: first the liver takes a toxin, and passes through what is called the phase I detox process of the liver, which partially neutralises the toxin. Then it passes this partially-neutralized toxin on to phase II detox process of the liver, which finishes the job, and directs the now fully neutralized toxin out of the liver, into the intestines.

    You can get liver problems if phase II is going slower than phase I, because then you get a build-up of partially-neutralized toxins in the liver, waiting to go into phase II.

    Herbs like milk thistle protect the liver by both slowing down phase I, and speeding up phase II. This clears the backlog of partially-neutralized toxins waiting in the liver, which is good for the liver.

    And in addition, milk thistle strongly promotes the repair and regeneration of liver cells. It is so powerful a regenerator that it has been known to repair even liver cirrhosis.

    So this herb provides two beneficial actions in the liver: it clears the toxin backlog, and rejuvenates liver cells.

    There are many other good herbs for the liver available as well.

    – Hip

  13. Thanks Hip,

    I did wonder about those pads, that maybe any moisture will turn the crystals/powder black…so back to milk thistle.


  14. Inosine (hypoxanthine riboside) is the precusor to Isoprinosine, which boosts natural killer cells and the immune system. Isoprinosine is prescribed by European Dr’s for CFS, but is not FDA approved in the U.S.

    Inosine has anti-viral properties, but is also a antioxidant peroxynitrite scavanger, increases cellular respiration, and stimulates regrowth of nerve endings.

    Uric acid is produced by xanthine oxidase from xanthine and hypoxanthine, which in turn are produced from purine. I became interested in Inosine when I heard of a study that there was no overlap between MS patients and Gout patients. I tested positive for EBV, which is suspected as a cause of MS, and started taking Inosine:




    A specialty vitamin store might carry Inosine, although I can’t find it on the shelf anymore. I’ve been buying on the internet from this supplier: http://shop.ultimatenutrition.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/47?osCsid=da8f87f3dc

    I started at 1,000 mg/day, and have taken 2,000 mg/day for short periods. I think it has helped me, and appears to have boosted my natural killer cell levels.

    REPLY: Many thanks Doug for the update.

    I am taking a number of NK cell activity boosters myself. There are quite a few of them to choose from: inosine, lycopene (a form of vitamin A), zinc, neem, vitamin E, selenium, IP6 (inositol hexaphosphate), Siberian ginseng, panax ginseng, spirulina, alfalfa, echinacea, quercetin, MGN3 (Biobran), low-dose naltrexone, DHEA, glutamine, astragalus, cordyceps, MCP (modified citrus pectin), rhodiola rosea (golden root), cat’s claw, beta sitosterol.

    I am not sure of the relative effectiveness of each of these, however. It would be nice to know which ones are the most powerful. There are studies that show that MGN3 Biobran increases natural-killer cell activity by 300%. But MGN3 is quite expensive.

    Did you find that inosine made you slightly more depressed? It did for me, so I stopped taking it.

    – Hip

  15. When I had the worst sore throat, at the beginning, the only thing I found that was soothing was the Throat Coat herbal pastille (lozenge) made by Traditional Medicinals. I only had a few samples in my tea box but you can check the website or health food store. Recently I noticed that green tea seemed to decrease the sore throat symptom. We use the Yamamotoyama brand tea bag (Japanese) from the Asian food store, NOT one of the western brands. Steep for 10 minutes. If you prefer it sweet, agave syrup is a nice alternative sweetener. Turns out that green tea is a known antiviral.

    I’m not sure if we all have the same thing. My first sore throat, five years ago, lasted at least three months and was bad. After that it has pretty much been on a monthly cycle, a little less painful each time but with some surprise exceptions. Some months it has stayed away. For this reason I believe it is some form of herpes virus. In the beginning I also had scary neurological symptoms and was afraid it was M.S. Luckily those have gotten better with time.

    I have a lot of g.i. problems but most of them could be related to lactose intolerance. This is something to check out. Try eating dairy one day with and another day without lactase pills. Now that I am carrying and using the pills each day, my g.i. symptoms are much better. I think I made my condition much worse by not addressing the diarrhea caused by lactose intolerance.

    For anxiety, avoid regular coffee. I drink decaf and limit the green tea to 1 or 2 cups a day and not too close to bedtime. Has anyone else noticed premature grey hair? Currently I am concerned with the possibility of an enlarged spleen. Was anyone else been diagnosed with this? I have had feelings of fullness near my ribs, loss of appetite, and feeling full right at the beginning of a meal. Enlarged spleen makes sense with the sore throat for perhaps 50 of the last 60 months.

    After close to 5 years I’m now at the point where I’m exhausted and not interested in socializing. My lymphocytes, creatinine, and blood pressure are low but my platelets and pulse rate are high.

    REPLY: Many thanks for writing, Kona.

    – Hip

  16. Hi Kona,

    Yep I can relate to the spleen probs I have awful pain under my ribs on the left side, it doesnt seem to have a pattern. It does come and go. As to the doctor, I fired him so I am going it alone at the moment, so no CT scan.

    Regards Jac

  17. I have had similar problems for 12 years now. When my children were smaller I seemed to get really ill feeling and really tired all the time. I ached and could not motivate myself or have interest in anything. The docotor diagnosed me with Chromic fatigue and some fibromyaglia. They put me on Effexor which is a anti depressant and it literally about killed me. It took me two years to get off of it and it was only because I did catch the flu and went off of it cold turkey since I felt like death anyway. After I returned from the flu 2 weeks later I felt a little better and was able to function somewhat but still have never been the same. Always tired and sluggish with no desire for any excitment or social life. Recurrent infections (bacterial and yeast and urinary). I started developing fibroids and cysts and decided to have a complete hysterectomy about a little over a year ago. Since I still have been sluggish and now dealing with a hormone nightmare. About 6 months ago I had a attack of some sort where I couldnt go to sleep and my eyes rolled back in my head and I was jerking some and been to the emergency room 7 times. No finding of anything in my blood work. MRI was fine of my head. My mental state I feel like I am struggling to keep and the lack of sleep and tiredness is wearing me very thin. I was admitted once to the psycho ward because I insisted there is something wrong with me medically and they kept telling me anxiety which I never had before until now. Now my throat hurts all the time with no white spots. I use to get strepp throat every year and never had white patches but I just ran a fever and my throat was a little sore. They did tell me i had Mono sometime in my life and that I had the Parvo B19 virus sometime in my life but it wasnt a recent infection. How do you get tested to find out what type of viruses you have in your body?

    REPLY: Thanks for writing Sherri.

    A lot of viral (and bacterial) infections can cause anxiety states, and usually a whole lot of other symptoms. Infections can create a chemical imbalance in the brain, that switches on your anxiety “circuits”. Only recently is medical science discovering that infectious microbes are behind many health conditions (in the future, we may find that the vast majority of diseases are caused by microbes). This is why people can suddenly get anxiety disorder: one minute they are fine, and then they catch a virus (not all viruses give initial symptoms of fever), and this will upset the brain chemistry and generate anxiety. This anxiety is nothing to do with the normal worries of life. It is a constant level of anxiety, caused by the unbalanced brain chemistry.

    The problem is that we don’t have very effective antivirals at present, so it is hard to treat the root cause of the anxiety symptoms (the infection), so instead we have anti-anxiety drugs, many of which are addictive. But not all. You can try SSRI anti-depresants, which can be very effective for some people with anxiety states.

    Sometimes, very simple techniques can greatly calm your anxiety states. For example, if you have sinusitis (an infection in the sinuses), such an infection can often affect the brain, causing anxiety (as the brain is located just behind the sinus cavities). Simply performing nasal irrigation with warm, slightly salty water once or twice a day can do wonders for clearing your sinuses, and fixing your anxiety. Search for “nasal irrigation” in youTube, and you will see how nasal irrigation is done.

    There are many herbs and other dietary supplements that can help lower anxiety as well.

    To answer you question:

    Most viruses can easily be tested for by blood work. Looks like you have already been tested for parvo, and Epstein Barr virus (the virus which causes mono), but they are not active. I imagine that your doctors have already tested you for other viruses, such as HHV-6 and cytomegalovirus (but if not, you might want to get tested for these two). Another common virus that causes CFS and many other mental symptoms is Coxsackie B virus, and echovirus. These are both types of enterovirus. Note that it is not easy to test for long term enterovirus infections (though there are some special tests available for these – see the enterovirus section above on this page). The hepatitis C virus is also associated with creating anxiety states.

    Bacterial infections from Borrelia (the bacterial cause of Lyme disease), often produce anxiety states.

    I hope this helps gives some idea of the situation, which is often not an easy one to resolve.

    – Hip

  18. Hi,

    Have you considered that this might be a candida-albicans problem. I have very similar problems and no one has them but me..I have read & re-read and I believe I amm overlaoded with candida? I need to find some study of this

    before I waste away , burn away, or lose it.

    thanks. a fellow sufferer.

  19. My experience with this virus is that it suppresses the probiotics in the gut and encourages candida overgrowth. I had a severe candida infection many years ago after taking antibiotics and I recognized the symptoms developing after I caught this virus. Other viruses do this too, and it is one of the symptoms of HIV infection.

    My response to the candida is to take an enteric coated probiotic formula and stay away from sugars. My symptoms of candida have not gone away but have improved greatly. I no longer get the bad dizzy spells which are a candida symptom.

  20. Here is a also good write-up about the XMRV retrovirus in the the journal Nature:


    It says that XMRV DNA is found in 67% of CFS patients, but only found in 3.7% of healthy people.

    Whether this XMRV actually contributes the the symptoms and pathogenesis of CFS remains to be seen. XMRV may just be an “innocent bystander”. In other words, if you have CFS virus like coxsackievirus B or HHV-6A, which themselves can weaken you immunity, it means that other infections, such as XMRV, can arise more easily.

    Alternatively, XMRV may work in tandem with a virus like coxsackievirus B or HHV-6A, and it is the combination of the two that triggers CFS.

    In the case of HIV/AIDS, a similar thing is believed to happen: if you have HIV and HHV-6A, it is thought that the progression to AIDS is much faster, because the two viruses together help each other.

    The very good news about this XMRV discovery is that there will now be a frenzy research into XMRV and CFS. Even the CDC (who to date officially deny that CFS is a physical disease), are already trying to replicate these findings. If they do find the same thing, this may begin to make them officially change their minds about CFS, and humbly admit that CFS is a real disease. It takes an act of courage to admit that your are wrong, so let us hope that the CDC has this in them.

    And of course, if XMRV is contributing to CFS, then it should be possible to find antiviral drugs that target XMRV. Perhaps even existing anti-retroviral drugs may help.

  21. Yes, as a matter of fact, one of the authors of the research, Dr Judy Mikovits, is already planning a study to see if existing HIV anti-retroviral drugs will help CFS patients. She believes that CFS is caused by XMRV (although she has no definite proof this stage), and says she has data to show that XMRV attacks the immune system.


    Again, it is likely that XMRV on its own may not trigger CFS, unless there is another virus working in tandem with, such as an enterovirus.

    XMRV is thought to be transmitted via body fluids such as blood, semen, and mother’s breast milk but is not transmitted through the air.

  22. Thank you so much for creating this site. I have experienced very similar (but not exact) symptoms as you have. I have within recent months become constantly infected with Shingles and have developed severe swelling of my spleen and liver. In my case they now suspect lymphatic cancer of some sort. We’ll see. Good luck with your cause.

    REPLY: Sorry to hear about all your health issues. In the case of shingles, caused by the reactivation of the varicella zoster virus (the chickenpox virus) by a weakened immune system, this I understand this virus is often very painful. Often in CFS type illnesses, studies show that the weakness is decreased natural killer cell function. Natural killer cells, when they are functioning correctly, target and destroy virally infected cells (and cancer cells). There are a number of boosters of natural killer cell activity:

    IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) 1200 mg

    Neem 500 mg

    Alfalfa 50 mg of alfalfa seed, or 8 grams of dried alfalfa leaves

    MGN3 Biobran

    Low-dose Naltrexone 5 mg once daily, taken before bed.

    Cordyceps 2000 mg

    Echinacea 1500 mg

    Inosine 1000 mg

    Lycopene (a form of vitamin A) 8 mg

    Rhodiola rosea (also called: golden root) 500 mg

    Dosages to be taken twice daily.

    These natural killer (NK) cell activity boosters are very useful for anyone with CFS, to help control the secondary infections that occur.

    I would check with you doctor, though, before using these NK boosters, in case they are contraindicated for suspected lymphatic cancer.

    There are some herbs that have a mild effect against varicella zoster virus, such as lemon balm (melissa officinalis). More here.

    Holy basil herb (Ocimum tenuiflorum; also called tulsi) is supposed to particularly effective against shingles.

    I read that varicella zoster virus also requires cholesterol in order to infect cells (this is termed cholesterol-dependent fusion). Perhaps a low-cholesterol diet may help suppress varicella zoster virus replication. I am not sure. I don’t know if this has been tried. Certainly, with viruses like Epstein-Barr, which require more acid conditions to enter and infect certain cells (termed pH-dependent fusion), an alkalizing diet can be a very effective means of controlling Epstein-Barr (Cathy on this blog had a good recovery from her Epstein-Barr via an alkalizing diet). So perhaps a low-cholesterol diet for varicella zoster virus may quell this virus?

    I hope this helps.

    – Hip

  23. 2009.10.11> Hi from a sunny South Africa! 2 months ago I suddenly experience pain frod my glands and felt there pain in my throat>unbearable painConsulted doctors every week and ended up with an ENT Specialist. He did a thorough examination and said there is virus in my throut and a few white spots on my tonsils. Explained he cannot predict the period of healing!I went to outpatients at a hospital after work. At this stage I experience extreme pain, and the doctor did a “swop” I reported the next day for duty! Due to operations, I cannot take sick leave. Experience tiredness and sleep Saturday and Sundays to ensure that I attend to burn out. When I stress, the pain is severe in the jaw area and glands. To report back after consultation to obtain results. God’s Healing Power & Protection on your health Louisa date of birth 1950.03.07

  24. Update on XMRV:

    Since the Whittemore Peterson Institute work on XMRV retrovirus was published, the researchers there have increased the sensitivity of their XMRV tests, and say that in fact XMRV antibodies are found in 95% of CFS patients.

    “This finding clearly points to the retrovirus as a significant contributing factor in this illness,” said Dr Judy Mikovits, the leading researcher.

    There is a test for XMRV coming out very soon, available from VIP labs.

  25. hi,

    i cant belive this, this is my exact condition. ive tested myself for std its been negative for 3 years. i ve started to have theese simptoms in 2006. gradualy ALL of what you describe (chronic infection of throat, nose, fatigue, anxiety, depression, skin problems, stomack problems, ) affect me now.

    how can i approach my doctor with this information?

    REPLY: Unless you find a doctor that is sympathetic towards chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME), you are unlikely to get much help. Most will just prescribe anti-depressants, even though anti-depressants usually do not work well with CFS/ME patients. So find a CFS/ME-friendly doctor first of all. – Hip

  26. You have Lyme Disease! I’ve been there myself actully had many of the same symptoms. It took over a year to be officially diagnosed. The inital tests were all negative. Then after about 1 year of Doxycycline and 3 months off meds and an Igenex Lab test I tested positive for Lyme, Babesia and Ehrlichiosis. I was one of the lucky ones because I remembered being bit by a tick but many have no memory of that event which makes for an even more complicated path to a diagnosis.

    Karen W

    REPLY: Thanks for the suggestion Karen, but in fact this in not Lyme. What we have here is quite contagious, and passes easily to people you meet socially. – Hip

  27. It began with a sore throat on November 10, 2009. I have just had blood work done and don’t know the results but have a feeling it’s going to be normal. The doctor first diagnosed mild viral pneumonia. I went to another doctor, same facility, she asked if I was depressed and I agreed I am but already had depression. This is different and not depression caused, I’m sure. Doctor suggested we check for Thyroid, as the symptoms are very similar. I have a feeling these tests will be normal. I have such fatigue as I have never known. I can sleep two days straight through then wake up, confused, eat, drink, be up and feeling lousy for about 1 hour and I have an instantaneous urge to fall asleep and must get into bed and sometimes can’t make it to bed…just fall asleep. My tongue is always burning, back muscles burning, leg pains, chest pains, top of stomach tingles and burns, loss of appitite, double vision and blurred vision, ears pinging like water or pressure pings, joints ache and feel loose, knees shake and legs wabble upon sitting or standing, body trembles severely at times, head bobbing and trembling, flatulence, constipation then loose bowel, teeth ache. I had fever blisters inside and outside of my nose all the way to my upper lip which felt septic at one point. The skin from the affected areas of the sores peeled thin wrinkled skin layers for three weeks. Arm pains, chest pain on left side of chest, lower intestinal pains are on and off, headache, sinus pressure, slight runny nose, irritated eyes which are dry, pale complexion, swollen feet and ankles. After the sore throat at the onset, severe congestion and cough, fevers and sweats, then cold limbs to touch. Extremely withdrawn and then super grumpy. I’ve never had this illness before. I’ve had a severe pneumonia and this is not quite like that. This is some illness I’ve never experienced. I will press for further tests if the blood work comes back normal.

    REPLY: HI Connie. This certainly sounds like the virus I have. – Hip

  28. Hi

    This is all very helpful.

    I have prickling skin all over – standard Drs in UK are not helpful.

    Does anyone have a view about Lyme without the classical red circular rash ?


  29. Hello. I have read through your blog very carefully and would like to ask if at any time during treatment for your sore throat, cough, and other infections, you were ever given a course (or more than one) of quinolone antibiotics. These would include Cipro, Levaquin, and Avelox. Many of the symptoms that you are describing, including the nerve, joint, and hearing problems, and skin and sleep disorders are associated with adverse reactions to these drugs and may not, in many cases, manifest themselves for weeks or even months after they have been taken. Thanking you in advance for your reply.

    REPLY: Thank you very much for that warning about the dangers of quinolone antibiotics. In fact, there was a similar comment made a long time ago on this site (see here).

    You are quite right to be concerned: Wikipedia says of these drugs: “The fluoroquinolone drugs are considered by several research groups to be the most toxic and dangerous antibiotics in clinical practice today”.

    I understand that quinolones can damage your mitochondrial DNA.

    However, the symptoms described on this site have unfortunately been observed in over 15 people who caught the same virus, not just in me. So we can rule things like drug side effects out completely. Having said that, I did take a brief course of Avelox for 10 days recently (I never took quinolones previously), but this was 5 years after I initially caught this virus, and all my symptoms had already fully manifested and settled in.

    I hope this adequately answers your question.

    – Hip

  30. Connie,

    How long have you had this virus…I think you have made a mistake with the dates…has it been months or years, because I have the same going on here with the addition of girlie problems


  31. what can you do to get rid of this. I really thought I was losing it. I have quite a few of the symptoms. Extreme fatigue, withdrawal of friends, sore throat, depression somewhat, don’t like drinking alcohol next few days after I feel terrrible. I have tried vitamins nothing works I feel good a few days then no energy again… Any advise would be great…

    REPLY: Hi JUdy. You might want to start perhaps by getting tested for Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 virus, and parvovirus, to see if these are causing your infection. You might also want to see an infectious disease specialist, as there are other other infections that can cause these general symptoms. Once you know what yo’ve got, you can move forward from there. – Hip

  32. Hey,

    First of all, congratulations for this website, I wish I had found it earlier on, it would have saved me a lot of blood work, but most specially I wouldn’t have had to go through the multiple diseases I went through in my head.

    If it helps, out of all the blood work, the only values that were consistently iffy were the iron levels (not ferritin) which were mildly low, and a cholesterol coefficient which was low too. It seems like my heartbeats per sec. are always between 90-100.

    On top of all the symptoms I have a sort of trembling and general clumsiness which varies with my state of health. Also some GERD and dysphagia which varies with my health too.

    I’d really like to know what kind of possible viruses I should ask my GP to have me tested for, along with potential diseases which might mimic this one.

    As I’ve said, I’ve had many blood tests done ever since I got this in July 2007, so if you are curious about anything, just let me know.

    I have never followed any treatment other than taking good care of my health, and reading this website : )

    Again, than you infinitely,


    ps. I have been to MANY doctors, both general and specialists, and they were all clueless.

    REPLY: Glad the site has been useful, Roy. If you have symptoms roughly like those descried on this blog, then you may have chronic fatigue syndrome. This is usually caused by Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6 virus, parvovirus, or an enterovirus (typically of the Coxsackie B type). It is easy to get tested for the first three (if you doctor will not agree to it, a private doctor or private testing lab will do it); however, standard enterovirus/coxsackievirus CFT tests are not worth doing in the case of chronic, long term infections. See the enterovirus section on this page for the explanation of this. Alternatively, find yourself a good CFS doctor, and they will perform all the right tests. Once you know what type of CFS you have, you can better tailor what little treatment options there are available. I assume you have already been to an infectious disease specialist, but if not, it is worth going. I hope this helps. – Hip

  33. Just wanted to share my experience with you all. I started being”ill” 2 years ago. after an stressful year, my immune system was completely shattered. I had infection after infection. The sore throat started after an episode of flu and never went away.Since then, and after being ignored by my GP, i had two miscarriages, I have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, haemophilia and last week I was in hospital with gram -ve bacterial meningitis. I feel scared and alone.

    I ve tried everything echinacea, propolis, manuka honey, gargles, lozegens, antibiotics, eating well, you name it. i ve also started some counselling to help me cope with my ever deteriorating health.Cayenne powder gargles gives me symptomatic, short term relief for my sore throat but never goes bloody away. I don’t recognise myself i was a 30 years old healthy, active woman and please people stop saying “stop thinking about it, it will get better”. I did nearly died of meningitis last week!

    REPLY: Sorry to hear of all these trouble you are having, Esther.

    For your chronic fatigue syndrome-like symptoms, you might want to find a doctor that understands CFS. The Treatments Page on this blog has details of CFS doctors around the world.

    – Hip

  34. A cousin of mine (just two years older) was just recently “diagnosed” with Lou Gehrig’s Disease. The infection that we have causes a lot of degenerative ailments that are currently being misdiagnosed: ALS, Lyme, FM, etc, etc.

    A lot of people out there are simply suffering from this infection and all of the breakdowns that occur with it.

    Anyway, my symptoms are quite similar to my cousin’s. For him, they give two to five years of life left.

    REPLY: I just did a quick check, and Lou Gehrig is linked to an enterovirus infection (specifically, an enterovirus similar to echovirus 7): Enterovirus and Lou Gehrig. The article does say that Lou Gehrig’s only affects the muscles, and that language and memory are not affected. So this is different to CFS, where much of the damage is to the memory, language, thinking and emotional side of the brain.

    – Hip

  35. Asklepius LGD is this heriditary or some type of infection? what are your symtoms? Did u get fordyce spots on your lips?

  36. I am a 38 year-old female who has been suffering from almost all of the symptoms you’ve listed. I amazed at what I have read on your website. I have been going through doctors and taking one antibiotic after the other to no avail.

    I have been tested three times for HIV, which is negative. I’ve had my blood count come back fine. I do have HSV 1 & 2. My doctor prescribed me several z-packs, keflex and amoxicillin for tonsil cysts.

    My symptoms are a few cyst-like lumps on each tonsil. They caused no pain for about one year then they started feeling like a knife was going through my throat.

    I have noticed changed in my skin. For example my neck skin looks very loose and has an odd texture. I have noticed this on my chest and other parts of my body as well.

    My hair has been falling out as well. From reading about what methods seem to help from your website, I have started taking acyclovir. After only a week on the antivirals I feel a bit better.

    Thanks for the information. If my doctor was more open-minded I would show him your website.

    REPLY: Hi Jessica. Sorry to hear you have these symptoms. If you think that you may have Epstein-Barr virus (which acyclovir fights against), you might also consider going on an alkalizing diet, as this can be quite effective against EBV as well. – Hip

  37. I have some questions- I began taking samples of Valtrex 1 mg for 5 days. I was not able to afford the Valtrex from the pharmacy after my samples ran out, so I asked my dr. for acyclovir. I went from feeling like I was improving, to feeling like I am backsliding. My throat still hurts.

    My question is- how much acyclovir would be equivalent to 1mg Valtrex. Is 1 mg even enough?

    Could it be that the acyclovir is not working as well as the Valtrex?

    To recap my history briefly:

    38 year old female, no strep. Have had sore throat on and off for over a year.

    I have been tested three times for HIV, which is negative. I’ve had my blood count come back fine. I do have HSV 1 & 2. My doctor prescribed me several z-packs, keflex and amoxicillin for tonsil cysts.

    My symptoms are a few cyst-like lumps on each tonsil. They caused no pain for about one year then they started feeling like a knife was going through my throat.

    Thanks Hip>


    REPLY: Valacyclovir (Valtrex) normally comes in 500mg or 1000mg tablets. Oral valacyclovir is around 3 to 5 times more powerful than acyclovir. As you probably know, valacyclovir is converted into acyclovir in the body. The reason valacyclovir is more powerful is because acyclovir is not well absorbed by the stomach (usually only 10% to 30% of oral acyclovir is absorbed) whereas valacyclovir is well absorbed in the stomach.

    Both valacyclovir and acyclovir are usually prescribed for herpes I & II, and varicella zoster virus, but they do have a mild effect against Epstein-Barr virus and CMV. I assume your doc prescribed the drug for the herpes, and people do get chronic fatigue from herpes II, so this could be the reason you are tired. Or it could be from Epstein-Barr virus. Have you been tested for Epstein-Barr?

    Here are some herbs that work against herpes simplex II.

    I hope this makes sense. – Hip

  38. Thanks Hip, that is the information I have been looking for. I was tested for Mono about three years ago for these same symptoms- if that is the same as Epstein Barr ?-and the mono spot told that I was exposed to it.
    My blood count came back normal, so I am confused at what is going on with me.
    The ENT said I should have my tonsils removed – but I am skeptical because I feel ill all over.
    My dr. game me a penicillin prescription, but I feel it is viral. So I took the Valtrex in hopes of it helping.
    And I did not fill the penicillin prescription.
    Should I just try the Valtrex?

    REPLY: Yes, Epstein-Barr is the virus that causes mononucleosis or “mono”. Most adults have EBV in their body, but in an inactive state (latent), which is may be what your test indicated.

    I would definitely find a second opinion before getting my tonsils removed. As you say, your whole body is affected. But I am not a medical expert.

    One virus to consider, that may be causing your symptoms, is the enterovirus called Coxsackie B virus. This is hard to test for in long-term infections, but there are specialist tests available, see here.

    You may also want to find a doc that specializes in chronic fatigue syndrome, which is what you may have, as a result of this virus.
    – Hip

  39. A year ago I woke up with pulsatile tinnitus and palpitations, a few days later I got an inflammed throat, all sides and the center. It then became really bad sinus which lasted probably 6 months. My sore throat does not bother much anymore. It never had inflammed tonsils or white spots. A few months ago a spot showed up on one tonsil but never changes, I have had the body tingling, foot numbness, brain fog and tiredness but nothing extreme. I can function daily but I am getting frustrated that this continues. I have been told it is anxiety and depression, it could be because life has been very stressful for me for a few years. The ear ringing never ends, I have seen 3 ENT’s. The last one has taken me seriously and ordered and MRI, I have had throid problems for years but it is kept in good order. The body tingles have reduced a lot as well. A CT scan and X-ray of my sinus never did show anything significant. I am about ready to give up and go for the Paxil, I have been taking sublingual B12 for about a week and it makes the foot numbness and mental fog a lot better. I do have some GERD but had surgery for it a long time ago and it seems to be coming back so not sure if that is anything related or not. I do not have the stomach problems or severe fatigue as I sleep well at night and wake up ready to go. Any ideas if this is a continuance of the virus I had last winter or just something that is taking its time to work through. I today have an inflammed throat for the first time since last summer. Never had swollen or infected tonsils, swollen glands or fever. Any info is much appreciated.

    REPLY: Hi Karen. You may have chronic fatigue syndrome, which is a chronic condition that has symptoms like tinnitus, foggy brain, recurrent sore throat, pins and needles (parethesias), and so forth. CFS is usually caused by viruses like Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus or enterovirus. You might want to get a blood test to check if you have any of these viruses active in your body. – Hip

  40. maybe a trip to Tbilisi, Georgia will be a more fruitful investment in treatment-

    REPLY: Yes, bacteriophages (viruses that attack bacteria) seem to be a pretty powerful way of treating bacterial infections. It is a pity that the rest of the world has ignored this “phage therapy”.

    – Hip

  41. Dear sir i am very thankful for this enlightening information, i have been suffering from some sort of virus for the last 4 years, countless visits to my gp and i finally got an appointment to see some one at eastman dental hospital in london, i thought i was going to see a oral specialist, how wrong i was turned out to be a shrink, ok i was mildly depressed but the cause of he depression was because i knew that id caught a virus, anyway to cut a very long story short i am none the wiser because of the buffoons in the nhs are entirely clueless, i am extremely angry my life is on hold and i have no one to turn to now how the hell are you supposed to cope with something like this? yours sincerely someone who feels there life is over.

    REPLY: I know, it is really sick that a sore throat bug can alter one’s life so profoundly. But in fact, it is turning out that the majority of human illnesses are caused by microbes of some sort.

    Trouble is, the whole medical profession is not yet geared to examining the underlying microbes that may be causing a disease, and neither is there much in the medical armoury that can be used to eradicate these microbes. We need to inject much more money and effort into studying how various microbes cause disease, and how we can then cure the diseases by eliminating the microbes.

    For those with severe CFS symptoms, however, the new discovery of the XMRV retrovirus offers a lot of hope: it is quite possible that existing anti-retroviral drugs will treat chronic fatigue syndrome, as severe CFS may simply be another retroviral disease like HIV/AIDS. So to keep your hopes up, keep reading the latest XMRV news.

    – Hip

  42. Hello again, I have a question. I had been taking about 2,000 mgs of acyclovir for two weeks daily. I was starting to have my throat calm down and the pain was gone, energy was coming back too. I tapered off of the acyclovir and now I feel back to square one.

    The reason I tapered is because I was cautious taking so many pills at one time. I tried to get assistance from Glaxo- Smith Kline- the manufacturer of Valtrex- to assist me with help attaining Valtrex (which works better for me) and was turned down. I make barely 600.00 a month. Does anyone know of any assistance program that would help. The Valtrex is so expensive.



  43. hi, i would suggest that i have the same symptoms as the article above and i was glad to find this as i have been trawling the web for 11 months now trying to put a name against my symptoms. similar circumstances but mine was brought on by severe stress and getting soaked at a rugby match in january. Pretty much all the symptoms described are what i have and if anyone can give me advice on what i can do it would be appreciated. i also want to point out that i had a similar illess 3 years ago that lasted for 11 months but it went away – and in the period in between i ran a marathon without any detriment to my system. 3 months after the marathon the second illness seemed to kick in. i dont drink or dont smoke and WAS a keen runner.

    heres some extra info to give more info on my symptoms:

    sore throat

    sore stomach for first 6 months

    blurred vision

    pins and needles

    cold hands


    extreme fatigue every evening after 7 o’clock


    removing myself from social circles

    gum issues has been sore gums at different times but not receeding

    i hadnt really noticed anything regarding my mental state but i have noticed my ability to speak quickly and be fast thinking to be diminished quite a bit.

    REPLY: Thank you for your comment. Viruses like those detailed on this blog can cause chronic fatigue syndrome (which is simply the name given to the symptoms listed in this blog). With CFS, a period of heavy physical exercise, such as training for a marathon, can often make things much worse. So it could be that your original illness that mostly went away was brought on again by the marathon. You ought to go to a doctor to have your symptoms checked, but also, see if you can find a doctor that specialises in CFS, as many regular doctors have little experience in treating CFS.

    – Hip

  44. would like to know any treatments for this particular virus infection in case of long term. Is there any at all?? Regards

    REPLY: If it is an enterovirus, as is suspected, then there is very little offered by conventional medicine at present. An anti-enteroviral drug called Pleconaril is in the pipeline, but unfortunately, even when it becomes available, it has already been shown to have little effect against these long-term type enterovirus infections.

    However, all is not lost, since, by trial and error, we are hoping here to find dietary supplements (herbs, vitamins, etc) that can significantly improve symptoms. Lots of people with CFS do improve their symptoms with such supplements.

    If you find anything yourself that has a noticeable effect, please post the details here for everyone to see.

    Do you think that you have precisely this virus described here, rather than any other? Chronic fatigue syndrome symptoms can be caused by a number of viruses, typically: Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus or enterovirus.

    – Hip

  45. Hi to everyone,

    Have you heard about XMRV? http://www.virology.ws/2009/10/15/xmrv-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

    I have been struggling with some shit since almoust 4 years now. Because of the symptoms and the way I contracted it I was sure it was HIV, but the tests, includeing PCR didn’t prove it.

    Any coments on XMRV?

    Good luck to all struggling with some mistery shit ruining our lives, completely ignored by the XXI’s century science and docs.


    REPLY: Thanks Edward. There was discussion about XMRV above. Lots of CFS people are already getting themselves tested for it, though the tests are expensive at this point, quite a few hundreds of dollars. Here are two places that you can order an XMRV test: VIPDx and Cooperative Diagnostics.

    – Hip

  46. Yes I am certain. My symptoms started as following:

    Fever and Cold with soar throat:

    Chronic Soar throat:

    6 Months

    Chronic Soar throat.

    Slight Mood Shift and Slight blurred vision.

    18 Month:

    Anxiety, Muscle Fatigue, Blurred Vision, Short/Long Memory Loss, Loss of initiative, Sleep does not satisfy fatigue, bone fatigue, needle and pins.

    4 Years: every symptom permanent.and after suffering it for 4 year I am now 20 year old. and studying(try to anyways before this I was one of brightest and confident student)

    emp only prescribe antibiotics which does not help.

    Chronic Sore Throat

  47. Acyclovir (Zovirax) I have heard that this medication have proven to be effective for CFS in some cases what is your take on this?? I know it actually not for purpose to treat CFS but still really like to know what do you know about it?

    REPLY: Yes, your symptoms do sound like this virus, Mian (but be aware that other viruses can cause these type of symptoms too). There a good indications that our virus is from the enterovirus genus. The enterovirus genus includes: Coxsackie A and B group viruses, echoviruses, and some others.

    Enteroviruses are common causes of chronic fatigue syndrome, which it sounds like you have.

    There are almost no medications that work for enteroviruses, except perhaps intravenous interferon alpha. Some herbs can have a small effect against enterovirus; Dr John Chia uses oxymatrine for enterovirus, but only with limited success (it does not work for everyone).

    Have a look at the comments above on this page, and you might find some ideas about which herbs and vitamins to take. Switching to a raw food diet can also be very helpful for CFS.

    You will probably find that your anxiety will improve if your clear the sinus pressure/infection that this virus causes. Very often, an ongoing sinus infection can affect the brain (the sinuses are adjacent to the brain), and produce anxiety. Bromelain tablets can help clear viral sinus infections.

    The drug you mentioned, acyclovir, only works with herpes virus and varicella zoster virus (the chickenpox virus), and it also has some mild effect against Epstein-Barr virus and cytomegalovirus. But acyclovir does not work for enterovirus.

    For people that have CFS caused by Epstein-Barr virus, high dose acyclovir (or a similar drug called valacyclovir) can help a bit.

    You might want to get tested to see if you have an active infection of Epstein-Barr virus, or HHV-6 for that matter. You can also get tested for long term enterovirus, but only via specialist laboratories.

    – Hip

  48. thank hip. i would definitely try your advises.. just another question Is it possible to reduce mental fog and to reduce memory loss with medication or diet? and do these medications available on market for better brain performance would better my condition. I am a student, as I mentioned earlier, and I am frustrated about keep forgetting my lectures and things that i study.


    REPLY: You might want to try 1000 to 2000 mg of piracetam daily. This will do wonders to reduce your brain fog. This is a good choice, because piracetam is also neuro-protective, which means it can help protect your brain cells from the damage caused by CFS.

    – Hip

  49. I am crying so hard right now because Ive had the same exact thing for a year and a half now…I am 25 years old always been so healthy, Ive gone from looking like an 18 year old to around 35 since Ive had this. Lossed tooth matter, collagen, and have white tissue always comming out of my nose…My throat always hurts. My body aches. Nodes are always swollen. Cant stop sleeping, and Ive losed muscle mass. Worst part is no doctor takes me seriously, they just tell me its sinnusitis. But this is much worse. I had a seisure last month because of it. I have great health insurance, just wish it could get some care. Please help me, and tell me where to go, and what to do…This is no way to live.

    REPLY: Hi Lisa, let’s see what we can suggest to help you. First of all, you should try to get to see an infectious disease specialist. They can run a number of tests on you, and to try to find out what you have caught. It may be you have something different to the virus described here. Suggest to your ID specialist that you might have caught: an enterovirus, Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, or parvovirus, and try to get tested for these.

    It may be an idea to show the infectious disease specialist “before and after” photographs of your appearance, and tell them that this change in appearance happened over just 18 months. That will give them a good visual indication of the impact of the infection.

    Many of the psychological disturbances produced by this infection are a result of the sinus infection itself. This means if you can clear the sinusitis, you will feel much better. Start with taking these dietary supplements: Reishi 1000 mg three times a day; bromelain (pineapple enzyme) 2000 GDU, once a day (take bromelain on an empty stomach with a glass of water). These are excellent for sinusitis. You can also add things like bilberry, propolis, ginger, echinacea, cat’s claw, guaifenesin, and MSM, which can also help sinusitis. Avoiding milk and cheese is also good for reducing sinusitis. Once you sinusitis is calmed, you likely will feel much better.

    In general you should work with any doctors that take your symptoms seriously (such doctors can be hard to find, so you will have to be persistent). And you should also try to help yourself, for example, by trying alternative medicine (such as following the above treatment of your sinusitis with herbs, vitamins and diet changes); and by reading more about chronic fatigue syndrome.

    If you find any useful treatments yourself, please let us know. And please let me know if the sinusitis treatment works for you. I hope this helps.

    – Hip

  50. Bromelain and piracetam, are they safe to be used together?

    REPLY: I would think so; piracetam has an excellent safety profile – infinitely safer than aspirin. Bromelain, the pineapple enzyme, is also safe, but you should not take more than say 3000 GDU in one day. – Hip

  51. is geratam good replacement for piracetam?

    REPLY: Probably. One of the cheapest ways to get piracetam is buying 250 grams of piracetam powder. – Hip

  52. About a year and a half ago I got a very bad sore throat with white patches in the back of my throat. I didnt think anything of it because it went away and I had always been healthy. A few months later I began having pains in my knees and legs. I went to get it checked out, but the pain went away. I am now having pain in my throat, tingling in my arms and legs, abdomin pain, pain in my frontal head area, tingling in my head, difficulty concentrating, and extreme rumbling in my stomach.

    My girlfriend has recently been experiencing rumbling in her digestive tract and recently got a sore throat with white patches in the back of her throat. My legs are constantly jittery and I am always fatigued and don’t feel like talking to anyone. Is this what you are referring to and do any doctors believe in this? Who publishes this site?

    REPLY: Hi Dustin. Those general symptoms you list could be caused by several of the viruses discussed above on this page, such as Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus or enterovirus; it is hard to say whether you have the exactly the same virus as me. You can ask your doctor to be tested for these various viruses. The pain in your frontal head area is probably a sinus infection. See above for discussion on treating sinus issues. I published this blog.

    – Hip

  53. Can these viruses cause viral meningitis? Because I have severe pain /stiffness in my neck and lumbar portion of my back. If so, would an MRI detect this and would there be anything they could do?

    REPLY: Yes: I read somewhere that enterovirus / coxsackievirus are responsible for 90% of all viral meningitis cases. However, if you think you may have meningitis, it would be prudent to seek medical help immediately, as if it is bacterial meningitis, this can be fatal if not treated with antibiotics.

    Viral meningitis is much milder; it cannot be treated, but it may be worth taking natural antivirals such as lemon balm, MSM, grapefruit seed extract, selenium and soya isoflavones. MRI will detect bacterial meningitis I think, but probably not viral.

    But anyway, just to be safe, I would see a doctor immediately.

    – Hip

  54. I recently had several treatments of massage therapy to deal with severe pain in my neck, back, and shoulders. It seems that my body has been experiencing a lot of inflammation. I’m not sure if this is the same problem as yours, but I have found the massage treatments, lots of fluids, and occasional ice pack do help.

    My GP has been a pain in the neck as well. He just surmises that since my white blood cell count is normal that I’m healthy. His diagnosis this week was “somatization” and tried to prescribe me anti-depressants. I won’t be going back to see him anymore.

    REPLY: Yes, many doctors have been badly influenced by the morally suspect Wessely School psychiatrists into adopting this somatization diagnosis for CFS. Somatization disorder describes physical symptoms that have no physical / biological causes, and (rather insultingly in the case CFS) hints that a person’s symptoms are “All in their Mind”, that is, their symptoms are psychologically created.

    The Wessely School is a self-serving network of wrong-headed psychiatrists, many based in Britain, who have unfortunately duped the CDC in the US, and NICE in the UK, into adopting this somatization category for CFS. This is why so many doctors around the world tell CFS patients that their symptoms have no causes, or that their symptoms are “All in their Head”. These doctors are just following this erroneous and corrupt CFS = somatization idea that Simon Wessely and his colleagues have promulgated as official dogma.

    Of course, a diagnosis of somatization saves insurance companies millions, since many will only pay out when there is a real physical disease. And many “experts” in the Wessely School also work for insurance companies. Funny that. So you can see how this all fits together.

    What is even worse is that, with this somatization idea being sold to governments for corrupt profit purposes, this has held back legitimate viral research funding into CFS for two at least two decades.

    It would be good if this Wessely School were thoroughly investigated for fraud.

    – Hip

  55. My college son has had chronic sore throats and thick yellow mucous that wont go away. He was diagnosed with mono a few years ago and was down for 6-8 weeks. We keep thinking his immune system is compromised and that is why he is getting sick so much?

    He has been treated by several physicians and specialists, but they cant seem to get rid of the symptoms permanently. Their next step is to take his tonsils out.

    This has affected his quality of life so much (college, work, social life and relationships) that he is not the same fun loving kid he used to be. Help!

    REPLY: Assuming his current symptoms are caused by chronic Epstein-Barr virus infection (EBV is the virus that causes mono), try the following to quell the infection: an alkalizing diet, and/or valacyclovir (Valtrex), an antiviral drug. An alkalizing diet (or raw food diet) can be VERY effective against chronic EBV. I would try this first. Search Google for more info on alkalizing/raw food diets.

    The following supplements also have a mild anti-EBV effect: lysine, red marine algae, cayaponia tayuya root, pau d’arco herb, beetroot extract (Beta vulgaris), olive leaf extract, lemon balm (Melissa officinalis).

    There is no reason not to combine several of these therapies. These should be effective if it is indeed EBV that your son has. Has he been recently tested for active viral infections such as Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus or enterovirus?

    – Hip

  56. One possible cause for ALL of these symptoms is Lyme disease; probably one of the lesser known borrelia species. Only 50% get the initial rash.

    REPLY: Thanks Doug. Lyme can have similar symptoms, but Lyme spirochetes do not generally transmit from person to person, and the virus described here definitely does. – Hip

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  58. Symptoms for nearly 8 years. I have contracted staff infection, sore throat, tonsillitus, and now have all range systems of chronic widespread immume system supressing long term infection.

    Mental symptoms, sore scale, hair loss, fragmented bands of head pain, fogg, malaise, hearing loss, sight loss, extreme memory loss, depression, rage, confusion. Sore joints, no energy, back pain, joint pain, constant fatigue. Restlessness. Chronic thick chunky mucous with brown hard spots, microplasma, nasal drip, congestion, and severe hallitosis. Also I broke out with shingles twice.

    Antibiotic treatments not helpful, cephlexin, amoxicillin, penicillin, all inefective.

    Other possible causes may be, toxoplasmosis. Currently awaiting tonsilectomy with worsening symptoms.

    REPLY: I would go to see an infectious disease specialist, preferably one that has experience with chronic fatigue syndrome. You should be tested for Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus B19 and enterovirus.

    – Hip

  59. I have had a terrible sore throat for months with thick mucus that drips down the back of my throat. My doctor first prescribed me Augmenton, which helped my symptoms, but toward the end of this antibiotics, I got a rash (I assume which means I must be allergic). He thought it was strep, but the test came back negative. Then as soon as I stopped the antibiotics, the same symptoms came back, along with a swollen uvula, so my doctor prescribed me a steroid and another round of a different antibiotics. My symptoms got better, once again, but once I finished those antibiotics, my symptoms came back worse. I have now been prescribed yet different antibiotic. I feel better, but my throat is still red and splotchy. I’m only 20 and usually healthy, but I can’t seem to get rid of this. Any suggestions as to what this might be and what may treat it? My doctor doesn’t seem to have any idea what it is.

    REPLY: The fact that antibiotics seem to help suggests you do have some sort of bacterial infection. Different antibiotics target different bacteria, so this is why it is necessary to try more than one. – Hip

  60. My 17 year old son is a cyclist and gets continous sore throats despite having had his tonsils out. PLEASE can anyone give me some advice.

    Thank you

    REPLY: Does he have any other symptoms? – Hip

  61. Any ideas how to get this virus attention in the medical research community so they know exactly what is causing the sore throat virus?

    REPLY: The normal approach to bringing this virus to the attention of the scientific and medical community would be: firstly to try to identify the virus. (In the case of coxsackievirus B group viruses, the suspected culprit, this virus serotyping can only be done in a few specialist labs). This is so that we know what we are dealing with. Secondly, you need to accurately write up the observed symptoms, and try to get everything published in a scientific journal. It may not be easy to get a journal to accept an “amateur” write-up of observations. Once you have the symptoms and virus type published in a journal, you will have begun to bring this virus to the attention of medical science.

    – Hip

  62. I just came across the story of the Irish-American dancer, Michael Flatley, who (a few years ago) was rushed to hospital after being struck with a mystery virus that caused a whole body infection that would not clear up. Sound familiar?

    Michael Flatley had symptoms ranging from lethargy to joint and muscular pain. Doctors were unable to identify the virus, despite batteries of tests. Often he found it hard to get out of his chair.

    Full story here.

    Michael Flatley’s health was retuned to him by a healer, he says. Flatley also follows a special high protein diet to help keep him healthy.

  63. The sore throut Virus. What can they do to help.. with all that info.. I cant go to the doctor with that they will think I have lost it ( again). There are many like problems i have been having .

  64. Wow, your situation is nearly identical to my own, definitely I need to get tested for more of these chronic viruses.

    As for this blog, well done! This is an impressive analysis of the current viral theories for ME/CFS. And I found the treatment suggestions helpful. Thanks!

    REPLY: Hi Kurt. Thanks for the complement! – Hip

  65. I have had ALL the same exact symptoms going on 3 years now! It’s completely debilitating! I hope someone looks into this further, as I am a single mother that cannot work or even do simple household tasks every day, like I once did. Please let me know if something comes out of this! Thank you!

  66. feel i could have this virus and is there anything i could do to eradicate it or cope with it better

    REPLY: Hi Chris. Have a look at the Treatments page on this blog, were you will find links to info on what drugs, vitamins and supplements can help.

    – Hip

  67. I’ve been trying to determine the etiology of my infectious disease for about 1.25 years now. I agree that the CDC, etc., are worthless, and require something as blatant as a swine flu outbreak to even acknowledge the existence of a “new” infectious disease. All the chronically sick folks out there can rot in hell as far as the CDC and IDSA are concerned, based on their pompous attitudes about CFS, Lyme, etc.

    Anyway, I have a couple questions and comments:

    Has anyone found temporary relief while on antibiotics, and then experienced relapses? I’ve been on numerous antibiotics including Bactrim, Cephalexin, Azythromycin, Doxycycline, and Ceftin, and with the exception of Doxycycline and possibly Azythromycin (which made me very ill during each course) I’ve felt almost normal while on them. Now, obviously this suggests a bacterial illness, but I’m puzzled as to how anything is living through these extended treatments. One theory revolves around this: Could one of the viruses on this site lower the immunity to bacterial infections to this degree, and yet remain largely symptom-free itself?

    Also, is there any general testing protocol to at least determine whether an infection is viral or bacterial? I want to do all the viral tests too, but those of you who are in this position know how testing all these things (in some case repeatedly) adds up to a small fortune.

    Here is a brief list of my ongoing symptoms:

    *Lowered immunity, with constant recurring upper respiratory infections, usually (but not always) without lung involvement.

    *Recurring mild fevers and facial flushing, especially ears turn bright red, usually when I’m feeling most ill

    *Feeling extremely ill and toxic, like coming down with a flu – sometime comes and goes within a single 24 hour period

    *Never feeling quite right, even on good days

    *Disturbed sleep – sometimes too much, sometimes too little (insomnia)

    *Anxiety at my plight, and possibly enhanced by the infection(s)

    *Dry mouth and throat, particularly while sleeping

    *Dry eyes, particularly while sleeping

    *Alcohol intolerance – it gives me an insta-hangover and can also make me acutely sick


    *Food sensitivity suspected – sometimes I feel very “sick all over” immediately after eating, especially eating out

    *Early on in the disease had a rash (not bulls-eye) and gum redness/inflammation with mouth irritations and raw spots evidence of chemical sensitivity

    I’m 32 years old and caught this when I was 30. Had never experienced anything like it before. The infection that never ends. I’ve been told it’s in my head as well, even though I’m an engineer with no previous history of anxiety, etc. What BS.

    REPLY: There is certainly something very strange about the government attitude to these diseases. In fact, the UK Medical Research Council actually have a Secret File on ME/CFS which will not be released until 2071, it is considered that sensitive. There is more going on here than we realize.

    To answer your questions: I tried a lot of different antibiotics, but did not notice much improvement myself. I can suggest you get a Digestive Stool Analysis and find out if you have an pathogenic bacteria, fungi or parasites in your gut. A lot of people with CFS have overgrowths of bad bacteria in their intestines.

    Enteroviruses, and other viruses, can be immunosuppressive, so this might explain why bacteria proliferate more. I certainly have lots of oral plaque now, which I never had before this virus; so this virus makes it easier for the oral bacteria to grow.

    There is no general testing protocol to determine whether an infection is viral or bacterial, as far as I know. If you have a recurring sore throat, if it were bacterial, this would show up on a throat swab test. If your throat swab was negative, it points in the direction of you having a viral sore throat.

    Viral tests: it is typically only Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus B19 or enteroviruses that cause long-term infection that lead to chronic fatigue syndrome, so these are the main ones to test for, which should not be that expensive.

    Note however that the enterovirus “CFT” test is worthless for long term infections: if you get a positive or negative result, this bears no relation to whether you have an long term enterovirus or not. As I understand it, the enterovirus CFT test is only good for testing acute enterovirus infections, not chronic. See the enterovirus section above for more info on this.

    – Hip

  68. My experience is that this is a virus that suppresses the immune system. Friendly flora in the gut are a critical part of the immune system and this virus seems to attack them. To fight back you need to eat a very healthy diet, avoiding sugar in particular and refined carbohydrates generally. Lots of vegetables and some fruits and protein foods.

    Supplementing with probiotics is essential and I recommend capsules that contain several strains. I have also found help taking olive leaf extract and oregano oil capsules.

    I think that it is the opportunistic infections and pathological gut flora that are the cause of much of the misery.

  69. Sounds like a good strategy, Phooph.

    I am thinking of adding a Recommended Supplements page to this site soon, that lists a variety of supplements that myself and all others here believe help with the symptoms.

    I recently added this new page to this blog, which lists “Mystery Virus” outbreaks around the world that have similar symptoms, or are enterovirus-connected.

  70. Thanks for the reply, Hip. This site certainly is a great resource and far more useful than certain other mainstream resources.

    I was reading the testing options on the Enterovirus Foundation website, and was wondering if you have any thoughts on which method is the most accurate and sensitive for chronic infections:

    *Immunohistochemistry (IHC)

    *Micro-neutralization test (this method implies repeated testing to establish prolonged elevated titers)

    *PCR (this testing is stated as highly insensitive to chronic infection)

    I see a lot of overlap between my symptoms and those attributed to enteroviruses, but who knows. I’m still focused on bacterial infections given my general wellness on antibiotics, but I know many of these complex and chronic illness are caused by more than a single infection.

    REPLY: The immunohistochemistry test for enterovirus chronic fatigue syndrome was pioneered by Dr Chia. It requires a finding a gastroenterologist to take a stomach tissue biopsy (via endoscopy), and then sending this to Chia’s lab for analysis: to detect enteroviral protein. Here is Dr Chia’s lab request form. Immunohistochemistry is the most reliable method of detecting long-term, low-level, smouldering enterovirus infections (Dr Chia used this approach in his original research); but obviously a stomach biopsy is a little complex, in that you need to find a willing gastroenterologist local to you, and then mail the specimens to Chia’s lab.

    If you get negative result from this stomach immunohistochemistry test, then it most likely rules out enterovirus with reasonable certainty (but not 100%); if you get a positive result, you know you have enterovirus, with 100% certainty. Unfortunately this test cannot determine which serotype (eg, coxsackievirus B1, coxsackievirus B2, echovirus 11, echovirus 30, etc) you have. However, this test will detect any enterovirus.

    Apparently, you can send other types of infected tissue samples to Chia’s lab (if you acquired a tongue coating from this virus, I would suggest that perhaps tongue scrapings may do – but I don’t know). But with other tissues samples, if you get a negative result, it might be correct, or it might just possibly be misleading, if the type of tissue sample you sent did not contain any enteroviruses, even though you may have an enterovirus infection. However, if you get a positive result, that is fine, as this will be mean you have enterovirus with 100% certainty, if you follow the logic. The stomach is the main area enteroviral replication; as the prefix entero (= intestines) suggests, enterovirus loves the gut; so this is why a stomach sample offers the most reliable way of detecting enterovirus, if present.

    The coxsackievirus micro-neutralization test (and echovirus test) test are more straightforward (you just need to mail blood samples); I am unclear on whether these enterovirus micro-neutralization tests can distinguish between serotypes (but I will try to find out). These two Arup Lab micro-neutralization tests is only sensitive to coxsackievirus B1 to B6, and echovirus types 6, 7, 9, 11, and 30. So if you have an enterovirus outside that range, these tests will miss it (whereas the immunohistochemistry test is good for all and any enteroviruses, even new ones).

    PCR is too unreliable for long term enteroviral infections.

    – Hip

  71. Hello Hip and Everyone,

    There is a short article, in the beginning section, of the January 2010 National Geographic Magazine touching on viruses, called “Hit Them Where They Live.” Quote: “Instead of attacking viruses directly, target the human cells they infect.” New drugs mentioned: Maraviroc and Fludase.

    REPLY: Thanks. That is a very interesting article, with nice illustrations.

    In the case of enterovirus infections, these viruses gain entry into human cells via the decay-accelerating factor (DAF) receptor, the coxsackievirus and adenovirus (CAR) receptor, and the ICAM-1 receptor, found on the cellular surface. A year ago, I tried to see if I could find any natural supplements or drugs that can block either DAF or CAR, but found nothing. – Hip

  72. Hi,

    I have had similar problems/symptoms for years now… my diet change (more raw fruits/vegetables), along with meditation and specific yoga practices have helped a LOT. Where I used to lay around the house all day and drag, now I am at about 75-85% depending on the day. If I push myself hard I get relapses. Good luck to everyone out there.


    REPLY: Hi Josh. Thanks for writing. I have heard several stories now of raw fruit/vegetables diets (alkalizing diets) making a huge improvement in CFS symptoms. I think this is particularly true if you have Epstein-Barr virus CFS. Have you been tested for the common CFS viruses, to see which one you have?

    Which specific yoga practises or asanas did you find helpful? – Hip

  73. great site. I have a similar chronic illness. I should have seen Dr Chia years ago. I called a couple times but appointments were always 8 months out. And I’m still sick.

  74. I have selective IgM deficiency, and we are not sure if I was born with this anomaly or if my illness is suppressing this immunolobulin. Anyone else have this? I also have circulating immune complexes, C3D. My sore throat went away after two years but my head and eye pain persist.

    REPLY: Thanks for your comment, Todd. There was some discussion on immune complexes above in the comments (search for “immune complex” on this page).

    As for IgM deficiency, I have not heard that before from anyone here. As you know, IgM are antibodies generated in the initial phases of the immune response, while a microbial infection is being brought under control. Once in control, IgM goes down to zero, and instead IgG type antibodies step in to play, so as to keep the infection inactive. The IgG antibodies against that particular microbe will remain for the life of a person. IgM sometimes returns to a small extent (along with more IgG) if there is a reactivation of an old, latent virus.

    It is hard to say what role your IgM deficiently plays, though. I wonder if low IgM can act as a type of immunodeficiency state that helps maintain a chronic infection?

    Your head/eye pain is probably an ongoing sinus infection. I have found that such a sinus infection can cause a lot of the mental state symptoms: the sinus inflammation seems to impact the brain. If you can control the sinusitis, you may find you feel a lot better mentally too.

    – Hip

  75. Hello there,

    I have been suffering from the same symptoms for over a year now, and I’m pretty sure it was all brought on by stress because at the time I was having alot of work related issues and my life in general was pretty thrown for a loop. I have the sore throat pain, which the doctors think it’s heartburn or mild GERD and gastritus so they simply gave me some prilosec to take, which to me only seems to make it worse. I was taking a DGL supplement which seemed to help a little bit..and i’ve been taking Enzymes off and on which don’t really seem to help much at all. I also have the chronic fatique, consipation, brain fog, seems like no matter how much I sleep i’m tired all the time. It’s honestly ruining my life. I’ve had so many blood tests, all come back good. Apparently last time I had a urine test they told me I had alot of white blood cells in it, but they never told me why or what it ment or if i needed to do anything about it. I’ve had CAT scans, MRI’S, Ultrasounds, Colonoscopy and Endoscopy. I even went as far as having my gallbladder removed because I had a test done on it and the doctors say it wasn’t functioning properly. Ever since then I feel like it’s only made the problem worse. I’ve had what feels like heart palpatations. Numbness in my left arm, numbness in my left shoulder blade. Sometimes parts of my face will feel like they have pins and needles. My teeth have started to get really bad. I feel like i’ve gone through so many tests, only to have nothing but a ton of doctor bills, which only stresses me out more since they are on me to pay them off, and no resolution for my problem which is ruining my life. I don’t like to go anywhere anymore because i’m always so tired and the burning throat makes it hard to want to do anything but sleep because thats the only time I don’t feel the pain. Oh…and one more thing. My stomach looks and feels permanetly bloated. It’s hard to the touch, and it’s hard to breath sometimes because of it. It feels like my ribs are going to explode. I need some help. I need some advice on what to do because I feel like i’ve tried everything. Thanks!

    REPLY: Heart palpitations are sometimes caused by enterovirus infection. If I were you I would start experimenting with some dietary supplements, particularly antiviral/antibacterial ones like MSM (10 grams daily), colostrum, propolis, lemon balm and immune system boosters, like high dose echinacea and cat’s claw. Raid your local health store, buy the lot, and see if they bring improvements. I believe they will.

    – Hip

  76. Ed,

    Have you tried oral nystatin swish and swallow? Maybe you have a candida overgrowth. I’ve had problems with it. I’m wondering if thats what is burning behind my eyes too.

  77. prescription. Your doc shouldn’t have a problem writing it. There are no side affects. If it alleviates your sore throat you might have an idea if you have an invasive fungal infection. I actually gave my girlfriend a yeast infection from oral sex. Sorry for the graphics. Then doctors don’t believe me. She sure did. Last I saw of her.

  78. I’m willing to try anything at this point. Thing is, I’m not sure if my sore throat is caused by the GERD, or if it’s actually a sore throat. I could just be the acid from my esophogus. I have a hard time telling which is which.

  79. Oh, and I don’t mean to get graphic either, but if you gave your girlfriend a yeast infection from oral sex, and then had sex with her afterwards, you may also have a yeast infection and need to take antibiotics to clear it up. Just a tip.

  80. Thanks Hip. I found colostrum on a website that also helps with candida and has probiotics in it. I might try that and see if i feel any improvement and will let you know. :)

  81. I came down with a cough and soar throat/chest in September of 2008. After 10 days I went to the doctor and was given one round of antibiotics. The problem subsided but did not go away so I went back to the doctor and got another round of antibiotics. It went away for a week but then came back again.

    I then started taking 10 grams of vitamin C a day and that relieved all the symptoms. I planned to find another doctor when I was eligible for Medicare in March of 2009. Sometime after 9 months of this I skipped the vitamin C for a while and it came back in full force. Since then I have had to take more vitamin C to eliminate the symptoms.

    I saw another doctor last month and explained to him that in more than once case I have been antibiotic resistant and the history of this problem. I thought he and I had agreed that he would give me a strong antibiotic and follow it up with another if the problem didn’t go away. I would continue taking the vitamin C while taking the antibiotic. He prescribed an expensive mild antibiotic and after I finished it I went back. He x rayed my chest and said he didn’t detect the problem but if it persisted he would refer me to a specialist. I insisted it was still there but he was unwilling to treat me.

    Right now I have a cold and I am taking vitamin C at two hour intervals and in higher doses but I’m not sure if this will help or if I will suffer side affects.

    REPLY: Hi Mary Ann. Are you experiencing any of the other symptoms listed at the top of this page? – Hip

  82. Indeed this virus grow really fast. Also animals could be affected. When I catch chronic sore throat I visited my parent’s farm, it killed 25% of animals within 2 days, and 100% were infected. Scary.

    REPLY: Thanks for your comment, Hydro. Have you had your virus for a long time (months, years)? And are there many people you know with the same virus? – Hip

  83. Anyone tried this stuff? It’s supposed to be a universal “potent anti-microbial” that is FDA approved (for whatever that’s worth):


    REPLY: Thanks. I have not tried pure monolaurin before, but I just bought some right now to try!

    One alternative way of getting monolaurin (the active antiviral ingredient of this product), is to take coconut oil, or a product containing coconut oil (like coconut powder or paste). Some of the coconut oil is then converted into monolaurin in the body – but probably you get a better dose when you take pure monolaurin.

    Note that monolaurin does not have any effect on naked (non-enveloped) viruses – these are viruses that do not have a fatty coating around their capsid shell. Enteroviruses are non-enveloped viruses, so in principle monolaurin will not work for them; but monolaurin will work for enveloped viruses. All herpes viruses (Epstein-Barr, Herpes Simplex, HHV-6, cytomegalovirus) are enveloped. Plus monolaurin is anti-bacterial.

    – Hip

  84. Hello Hip,

    I am starting to put two and two together with this viral thing-I think.

    I have HSV 1 & 2. Ever since contracting it I developed a feverish/flushing feeling in my face, a sore throat, chills, upset stomach, fatigue and achiness. Then I get a tiny spot on my chin or upper lip after several days.

    That ismall spot is the only visible sign of an outbreak that I have after 7 years.

    This occurs right before my period, and the symptoms of flu last for weeks, even when the sore is totally gone.

    I just started up again with acyclovir.

    Does this sound like a result of HSV 1 & 2 as I think it is?

    The symptoms I get prior to an OB are worse than the actual OB. I was just starting to feel better then BAM- at PMS I get the “flu” symptoms again.

    Please let me know what you think. If anyone else has these symptoms and HSV please let me know.

    REPLY: Hi Jessica. It is thought that herpes simplex can play a role in chronic fatigue syndrome, and cause the symptoms you have.

    Perhaps the best way of testing this herpes theory is to start taking several things that keep herpes simplex viruses under control, and then see if you feel better. Acyclovir is quite good, but there is a better version called valacyclovir (Valtrex), which normally comes in 500mg or 1000mg tablets. Valacyclovir is around 3 to 5 times more powerful than acyclovir. It does cost more that acyclovir, though.

    There are some dietary supplements that can help control herpes simplex, such as Lysine (dose = 1000 to 1500mg daily). Lemon balm (Melissa officinalis) herb/essential oil is also good for herpes simplex.

    Perhaps try all three together, and if you start to feel better, then this suggests it might well be that herpes simplex is the cause of your symptoms.

    I hope this helps; let us know how it goes.

    Anyone here have any other suggestion for Jessica?

    – Hip

  85. Fusobacterium nucleatum bacteria documented at Case Western Reserve University.

    REPLY: Interesting, but fusobacterium is not transmitted from person-toperson, and also is easily treatable with antibiotics. – Hip

  86. I asked my doctor (doctor is alternative, naturopath and MD) if she could order tests to check my neutrophil elastase and MMP-9 (also called gelatinase B) levels. She said it is only done outside the U.S. Does anyone know if the tests are done in the U.S.

    REPLY: I have been looking for a lab that tests MMP-9 levels, but I cannot find one. It would be good to test for elastase levels at the same time. Both elastase and MMP-9 can degrade the elastin fibers in the skin. Elastase is often elevated in chronic fatigue syndrome, and may be extra-elevated in the case of this virus.

    – Hip

  87. I have almost same symptoms for ~three years. Primary symptoms (or physical symptoms) occured in June 2007 when I was serving in the army ( I live in Third World ). After a heavy flu period, my tonsils turned into dark red, and they never healed again ( they’re still dark red). Doctor said: “it’s a viral infection, so antibiotics wouldn’t help.”

    There’s still permanent inflammation (low level) on my tonsils , but I’m used to it. After the flu period, intense lower back pain/lumbago occured (in June 2007) and never healed…

    In the few months, physchological issues occured (just like in this article); I simply turned into a pessimistic and fragile person in this period (I was not an optimistic person before it, but I was not pessimistic too). I have totally isolated myself from the community. I’m conscious, but there’s some kind of impulse that forces me to isolate myself. However, I want to start a new life in another place. I mean, I don’t want to see my old friends anymore…

    I also get demoralized easily (I was not that fragile before it) and whenever I try to motivate myself ( self motivation ) I fail (I never use anti-deppressants). I’m simply unhappy all the time.

    I have tried various multivitamin mineral supplements, and herbal cures but they didn’t help.

    Actually, there’s a lot of details but my English is not enough for a detailed story than this.

    Thanks Hip for this website. There’s great/unique information in here…

    REPLY: Thanks for writing. Some herbs can help a little bit, but it takes a while to find the right herbs for you. You might try taking the supplement carnitine 1000 mg daily; this can boost energy levels and mental concentration.

    – Hip

  88. hi,

    i am not sure if this is the same, but definetely had similar simptoms. main ones are horrific headaches that would last for weeks with lighthening like pains in the head, neck and pain in spine, muscle twitching, parasthesias, altered feeling of cold/warm, horible migrating joint pain as well as shutting pain through muscles in leggs. I know it is contagious. I know when I got it, I see all the people around me getting it. 4 years after the infection, headaches have decreased, however joint pain is still severe, especially on the right side (TMJ and all area around ear is very painfull as well neck in front and back). My troat is painfull only on that side and feels like I could pinpoint the spot were it hurts. Ear feels stuffy, under pressure, and earcanal is painfull especially towards back up side. I have observed enlargement of the TMJ bones on the side of my head, my pupil on that side doesnot enlarge as much as the other one, and it is slightly turned in (more then I had before). Forhead is more prominenet as well as jaw (probably due to deformity of the joint) they did conclude that there is the joint degeneration and osteofit there however not acutly significant to do anything.

  89. Hi Everyone,

    I just wanted to share this FDA warning about Reglan.

    Since there is presently no known permanent cure for serious gastrointestinal distress, it

    is not surprising that many patients seek out treatments to provide long-term relief.

    According to package insert dosage instructions, Reglan was only intended to be taken

    for up to three months. People who have taken this drug for longer than the three–month

    prescribed period have sometimes developed a seriously debilitating condition known as

    tardive dyskinesia.

    Recently, the FDA has issued a public health warning to both patients

    and physicians with the intention of avoiding additional instances of this devastating disorder.

    No treatment is currently available to treat tardive dyskinesia symptoms. Many of these side

    effects are irreversible and permanent.

    For more information on Reglan and a list of tardive dyskinesia symptoms check out the Reglan Safety Site.

  90. As I read your notes, first on a respiratory site and then here, I had deja vu. Many of your sypmtoms, especially those that were unexpected with a virus, were familiar. I cannot find anywhere that you stated what medicine you tried. I however have tied my issues to a string of antibiotics I received over several years. I had the joint and muscle aches and spasms, the tingling, the mental confusion, sleep issues, CNS issues, eye twitching, weird thoughts, memory problems, tinitis, etc. I could go on. It was severe for years and I had many tests and saw many doctors with no diagnosis. My last dose of Cipro clued me in. Please, check out Fluoroquinolones and the side effects they have caused. Some have been pulled from the market now, and some have Black box warnings. They can cause issues starting with the first dose or after several, and usually symptoms start to appear within 6 months of taking them. Then they can progress. They stay in your system, and especially can do damage to tendons and CNS. Recovery in mild cases appears to be in the 5-6 year range according to support sites. My symptoms have subsided and are managable now, years later, after I had to quit my job because of the pain. This may not be the answer, but for some of your readers it may help them identify a source of some of their problems – one that we find so easy to keep taking without realizing what we are doing to ourselves. I hope this helps someone.

    REPLY: These viral symptoms are usually classified as chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Here are some links to medicines and treatments for CFS. Different medicines work for different people, depending on what virus or viruses you have caught. You may consider getting tested for the common CFS-causing viruses.

    – Hip

  91. I read your disparaging comments about an article I published in the journal Psychological Medicine a while back. Your uncivil tone does little justice to the sophistication of your scientific argument.

    Stop screaming and you will be heard.

    REPLY: Hi Paul Duberstein. I have emailed you, asking you for the weblink to my comment, as I do not remember commenting on any of your work. It could be mistaken identity.

    – Hip

  92. Hip,

    I just stumbled upon this site and haven’t had time to read your entire Post, nor all of the Comments. However, from what I have read it appears that you have had, or by this time, had (as in the past, hoping that the problems have been eliminated) a couple or more things going on. The pinpricks and needle like bites just beneath the skin, as well as the crawling sensation and the cycling or disappearance and reappearance one week later, are classic symptoms of scabies. Scabies is an infestation of the skin by the scabies mite, which is the human version of the mite that causes mange in animals. It is not unusual these days for children to pick up the condition at Day-Care Centers, and for adults to pick it up at Laundromats and sometimes from clothes that have been sent to the Dry Cleaners, and bring it home where it spreads to others. The mites burrow beneath the skin to the second layer where the male mates with the female and the female lays its eggs. The burrows are called Tracks which a Dermatologist can often identify by scanning your skin with a special fluorescent lamp. Skin scrapings using an oil or biopsy can positively identify the mite, so if you haven’t already done so, you should see a Dermatologist to get checked out. It requires a prescription cream, usually one or two applications 5 to 7 days apart, as well as special attention to disinfecting your environment and clothes to eliminate. There is also an oral medication (also prescription) that some Dermatologists now recommend. However the pins and needles sensation can also be due to a circulatory problem and is also a classic symptom of Diabetes which is out of control. That would also result in high blood sugar levels which would contribute to fungal infection and/or Candidiasis which would account for a number of your other symptoms. As Diabetes is fairly easy to test for and identify, your General Practitioner should be able to determine if that is in fact your problem, or at least a significant part of it.

    There is also the possibility that you in fact, as suspected, acquired a persistent viral infection. Assuming that is the case for a good part of the problem, there are some things you can do to kill the virus and completely eliminate that portion of the problem. Yes, contrary to what most physicians will tell their patients, viruses can be killed and the viral infections eliminated.

    Olive Leaf Extract is an over the counter supplement which does exactly that. It will kill nearly any virus, as well as most pathogenic bacteria responsible for bacterial infections. However you have to use a potent extract and take enough of it to do the job. You want an Olive Leaf Extract that is at least 18%, which means that it provides not less than 18% of its content as the active ingredient (the virus/bacteria killer), Oleuropein. The whole herb, which is less expensive but is not “Standardized” for any percentage of Oleuropein, is worthless for that purpose.

    Following are Links for two excellent ones:

    Olive Leaf Extract 18%

    Olive Leaf Extract Super Strength 20%

    As you can see, there is a difference in the capsule size; the one from Swanson is 20% and 750 mg per capsule, while the one from LifeWise is 18% and 500 mg per capsule. However I have used them both and find it difficult to tell the difference; they both are very effective. As for how much to take, that is also critical in that this is essentially a natural antibiotic/viracide and for it to be effective you have to take enough of it to do the job.

    I suggest beginning with the dosage recommended on the label for the first four days. Take first thing in the morning or sometime during the day on an empty stomach (at least two hours after eating). Then wait for at least half an hour before eating. After the first four days, gradually increase the dose, e.g., two capsules per day for the next four days, four capsules per day for four days, etc. Take them with juice or water, or warm water or tea. As you gradually increase the dose, pay attention to how you feel. You will be looking for what will be a temporary exacerbation of (increase in) your symptoms, e.g., runny/stuffy nose, headache, etc. That will be due to what is called the Herxheimer (Google it) effect or reaction, which is produced by the rapid killing off of any viruses and or pathogenic bacteria, and/or some fungal organisms and the body’s difficulty in purging the large number of dead pathogens and their resulting waste products from your body and bloodstream. It may not occur until you increase the dosage, and if you do so very slowly you may not experience much of a reaction at all. Anyway, continue increasing the number of capsules until you are taking ten to twelve a day of the LifeWise or eight to ten (in my experience, anyway) of the Swanson. As everyone is different in respect to strength of their immune systems, and as the severity of the infectious condition(s) also differ, listen to your body and make appropriate adjustments to the dosage. Maintain the dosage for a week after the symptoms have been eliminated and then gradually reduce to a lower maintenance dose which you might want to continue for a month or two.

    Before continung, let me state that when using any of these products which disable and/or kill viruses and/or infectioujs pathogens, to be on the safe side, as well as to bolster your immune system it’s imperative to take one or more good quality Probiotics to replenish any friendly bacteria in your digestive tract that might have been diminished by the pathogens and/or treatment. I like the following for quality and for price:



    A 300 capsule bottle is also available at the Vitamin Shoppe for roughly $50. I suggest purchasing both the Primadophilus and the Ultimate ’10’ Probiotic and taking one a day of the Primadophilus and two a day of the Ultimate ’10’. However, be aware that each product contains a minute amount of Soy and Milk, so if you have a major problem with either, these particular Probiotics are not for you. In that case shop the websites for an alternative. Another site to consider is vitacost.com. Their prices are also excellent.

    Another useful product is Colloidal Silver to be taken orally, and to gargle with as well, for the problem with the tonsils and throat. I have found this brand to be excellent – explore the website and read all about it:


    While there, you can read about Vitacost’s Probiotic 10-20 by clicking on the Probiotic 10-20 Link just above the list of products.

    One more product which should be helpful in combatting any bacterial infection of the mouth or throat is Nutribiotic’s GSE which contains the CITRICIDAL (Google it) brand of Grapefruit Seed Extract:


    You might also shop the Vitacost site for that product. For any of these sites, you can use their SEARCH box near the top of the page.

    Finally, another excellent product with a great deal of clinical research behind it is the product derived from mushrooms called AHCC, which bolsters the immune system in part by increasing its Natural Killer Cells. Read about it at the following Links:

    Study to Investigate AHCC and the Swine Flu Virus



    Swanson carries two very good selections at excellent prices, although you might want to shop around as it’s a pricy product:



    A healthy diet with appropriate nutritional supplements, and the avoidance of sugar and simple carbohydrates (which are converted to sugar by the body), I believe have already been addressed by others. Patience and persistence will result in success.

    REPLY: Hi Beach Man. Thanks very much for taking the time to write these interesting anti-viral protocols (your comment got caught in spam filter, which sometimes happens if the comment has lots of links). I myself have tried Olive leaf Extract, Grapefruit Seed Extract and Colloidal Silver, but not AHCC (Active Hexose Correlated Compound). I noticed that Grapefruit Seed Extract did have some antiviral effect (even though the antiviral action of GSE actually comes from the preservative it contains, benzethonium chloride ).

    Perhaps it is worth me trying AHCC.

    Many thanks.

    – Hip

  93. I would be interested in hearing if you have found anything further identifying this virus. I have or have had most of the symptoms you describe, to one degree or another, for upward of 20 years. The last 15 years have brought the skin thinning and wrinkling, the psychological and anxiety-related issues have become acute, and concentrating has become very difficult. If a severe stress-producing event occurs, within a day the sore throat is raging and I get a respiratory illness leading to bronchitis. I was diagnosed with CFS at one time about 15 years ago when my doctor could find nothing else to attribute to the problems I was having. These were objective health issues the doctor could not explain. I now have an HMO and any special testing is out of the question, with the symptoms being ignored and downplayed. I have simply learned to live with it, sometimes miserably, but feel I have to go on. Taking immune-boost supplements such as Lysine+ does help lessen the sore throat and so does daily, mild exercise. I cannot do strenuous exercise or I am severely fatigued to the point of feeling like the “bottom has dropped out.” The only thing that helps is avoiding stress if possible and rest. Fresh fruit and vegetables, and eggs, fish and non-red meat proteins also help, if your stomach can take it in small portions. Good luck to you and to all of us! Please let me know if anything encouraging is happening here.

    REPLY: Hi KS. Thanks for your comment. If you have general CFS symptoms, these can be caused by a number of viruses (Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus B19 or enterovirus). You should try to find out which virus is causing your symptoms, so that you can best treat your CFS. Get some virus tests: your doctor should be able to arrange this. The fact that you respond well to Lysine suggests you might have Epstein-Barr virus (EBV). You might also try an alkalizing diet (see Google), as this is very good for EBV (and you are halfway there, with your fresh fruit and vegetables).

    Let us know how you get on.

    GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) is found in 30% of CFS patients, but there are a few drugs and supplements that can help treat this anxiety. Transdermal magnesium cream can be quite effective.

    – Hip

  94. I have been dealing with similar symptoms for 4 years now. I am now 48, but contracted EBV when I was 18, had a terrible time with it, and then it went dormant. But when I was 26, I was again sick with the strange symptoms. Dormant again, until I was 44, then I got sick with a cold-like illness and have not been well since. I have thought that maybe EBV is to blame, but I just don’t know. My husband is just now getting the same symptoms, and this is a man who NEVER gets sick!

    My blood work shows low WBC and RBC for years now, but no doctor will do anything. I have often severe peripheral neuropathy that started at the same time. Went to a neurologist at UC Davis, but he just told me I was depressed (which, luckily, I am not… that is not a symptom I have to deal with, other than being depressed occasionally from being sick). That was last year, and I have not tried to get a doctor’s opionion since then.

    Three months ago I thought I caught h1n1. I am still dealing with cough, red throat, terrible aches in my teeth and jaw, earaches, swollen lymph nodes. My lungs and brohchial tubes have been very painful. Sometimes it is hard to breathe. I also noticed just the other day (this freaks me out), the weird small wrinkling of my skin, like it is really dry and has small wrinkle lines all over. When I put lotion on, it doesn’t go away (like dry skin would). Sleeping is almost impossible, as I awaken constantly from coughing or my body getting too cold or too hot.

    My right leg and calf have periodic shooting pain, which started about 6 months ago, along with pain in my right hip socket. If I try and drink a glass of wine, my lymph nodes in my neck get severely painful.

    I find that if I get out and work really physically hard (such as moving wood and downed trees into a wood pile) I feel a lot better… for a while. Then it all comes back. I take liquid vitamins/minerals/herbs, echinacia, etc. to see if I can at least build my immune system up somewhat. But I think my immune system is shot and nothing will help it. I just have live like this, day in and day out, and make the best of things. I will continue to search the internet for things I can try… it’s all I feel I can do these days, due to doctors turning their backs (probably because they don’t know what it is, either, and they don’t want to deal with it).

    Has anyone tried a homeopathic doctor? I am curious.

    REPLY: Hi Heidi. I could well be that you have caught the same virus as me. Fine skin wrinkles are one of its odd symptoms; and its does tend to spread to other people, like spouses, friend and family. Even the very fit and healthy will get it. Not everyone gets very bad symptoms though.

    In China, where a very similar (or possibly identical) new virus is spreading, low white blood cell counts are one of the common symptoms in many (but not all) of the people there. The virus reduces CD4 immune cells, which are a type of white blood cell. There is no particular worry with this low WBC, but it is a common symptom with the emerging Chinese virus (more info on the mystery HIV-like disease in China). In the Chinese patients, often the WBC improves on its own after a few years.

    Some people on this website, myself included, have found that two heaped teaspoons of colostrum, twice a day (on an empty stomach) can greatly improve symptoms of this virus. Try to find a colostrum that contains a good 3% of Proline-Rich-Polypeptides, such as the Symbiotics colostrum. You will need to buy a good quantity of colostrum, say 20 oz of colostrum powder.

    Since this new virus suppresses the immune system, it may be that your Epstein-Barr virus has also reactivated a bit, and is making your symptoms worse. Search for “Epstein-Barr” in the above comments on this page, and you will see some advice on treating EBV. But do try the colostrum. This will work for EBV too.

    Let us know how it goes; it’s always good to keep in touch and get feedback. The idea is to share treatment ideas, so that everyone can benefit.

    – Hip

  95. Thank you for your reply, Hip. When I was diagnosed with CFS, there were viral tests taken and my EBV titer count was in the range of 680 which I know is very high. That was 20 years ago. I also had a positive for CMV. Haven’t had any testing since because, like I said, I’ve had an HMO for my insurance through work. I wish there was some cure, but it seems living with it is all I can do. I stay away from processed sugar, avoid stress if possible, get a lot of rest, drink lots of water, fresh fruit/veggies, Lysine+, Vitamin C (but only the powdered kind – stomach can’t take tablets), B-complex vitamins and also try to stay away from anyone who is sick. Keeping a sense of humor and not sweating the small stuff is very important, too. I’m blessed in that I’ve been able to keep working, but I’m a magnet for stressful life situations I don’t ask for, so it is a struggle. Children and family mostly. Can’t choose them, you know? But I love them! I have looked over many of the suggested home therapies and will definitely give them a try. I’ll report back if I see further improvements. The worst part is trying not to get so tired that I give up. Some days, I just really want to give up! Thank you to all who have commented. Sometimes just knowing you aren’t alone is help enough. God bless all of you … keep enjoying and remembering the good, positive things in your life and get fighting mad at the bad!

    REPLY: CMV is unfortunately one of those viruses that can contribute to neurological symptoms. I also have this.

    The first supplement therapy you might want to try is try two heaped teaspoons of bovine colostrum, taken twice a day, on an empty stomach. In some people, this can work miracles.

    – Hip

  96. Thank you, Hip. It is really helpful knowing that there are so many others who can identify with what I have been dealing with for so long. I will definitely try the colostrum, and read more of the entries here to see what else I can try. Unfortunately, our medical community has turned its back on the more natural ways of helping people because they have been bought out by the drug companies.

    As I sit here at my computer, I am very concerned, listening to my husband coughing away after so many weeks, so unusual for a man who never gets sick. I just hope that my two teen daughters are not next. I surely do not want them to begin adulthood in the same fashion as I did and have to deal with this for most of their years. I wish there was a way to prevent them from getting it.

    REPLY: Since these viruses are often transmitted via saliva from the mouth (or nasal mucus), you can minimise the chances of transmission by, say, not sharing cups for drinking (most people usually don’t anyway), not coughing or sneezing over or near prepared food, washing your hands if you cough or sneeze into them, and in the bathroom, when you brush your teeth, ensuring that some of your spittle does not land on the face sponge, or soap, or other people’s toothbrushes (brushing teeth tends to flick tiny flecks of spittle everywhere, except if you close your lips while brushing).

    Another approach is to find some treatments, herbal or otherwise, that quell the sore throat, in which case there will be little or no viruses in your saliva.

    So by taking the right immune boosting and/or antiviral herbs or drugs, and a bit of caution with hygiene, and you may prevent transmission entirely.

    But we live in a world where viruses are constantly passed between people. For example, most infants will have caught HHV-6 virus by the age of only three, just by normal life human-to-human contact. It is not an easy problem to solve. Yet there ought to be some solution for preventing all of this.

    – Hip

  97. Thank you Hip, and everyone for this regime:

    Healthy diet, sufficient rest, and exercise.

    Colostrum, Equilibrant, Licorice Root, Coconut Oil, Monolurin, Piracetam, MSM, Bupleurum, B-12, Garlic Oil, Oil of Oregano, Resveratrol, Pcynogenol, Probiotics, Bromelain, Propolis, Olive Leaf Extract, Sam-e, CoQ10, Magnesium Ascorbate, Inositol, N-Acetyl Cysteine, DHEA, Zinc, Vitamin C, Lecithin, Milk Thistle, Evening Primrose Oil, Fish Oil, Flax Seed Oil, and Tart Cherry Extract.

    REPLY: That is a great set of supplements. And just to reiterate: high-dose colostrum (7 grams twice daily) seems to be one of the most powerful supplements you can take for this virus. – Hip

  98. I’ve had a sore throat for about 6 months now, alternating sides of my throat, red bumps in my throat, blisters on my tongue, frequent heartburn, bloating w/gas, headache, earache, memory loss, left nostril is always dry and bleeds when I blow my nose. I, too, have been to my doctor and the ER several times. I have actually left there crying because I’m so sick and also so frustrated. I always have the feeling that I’m coming down with the flu. Lately my 16 year old son has been complaining of the same symptoms.

    REPLY: Hi Cindy, thanks for your comment. Sorry to hear about your frustrations – we all have them here. You might want to get tested for common respiratory viruses, like Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus B19 or enterovirus, to try to find out what is causing your symptoms. Ask your doctor about such tests.

    – Hip

  99. This symptom is strikenly similar to Lyme disease. Don’t assume this is not a lyme because lyme is also easily contacted not only by tick.

    You can test for lyme and come back to normal but that does not necessarily means you are free from lyme diease either, you immune system might not be responsive and therefore no antibody is produced because you have been accustomized to such environment. Probably chronic lyme and at one point it is getting worse.

    This is just my guess, because I have test negative for Lyme disease, but I have the wrinkle skin, crawling and biting on scalp and skin, etc. I have test for all the hhv6, EPV, etc, only come back with small indication of EPV (the doctor said it was trace and maybe caught during teenage).

    Have anyone tried rife therapy for lyme? or target different microorganism? The most powerful machine is doug coil machine, but there are lots of other rife machine on the market and it is not easy to chose one.

    Also Far infra red is good for detox, but it is far expensive to get a good quality FIR sauna.

  100. I briefly scanned through your info after having Googled “chronic sore throat”. A lot of the symptoms you mention can be related or not related. Anybody with chronic something or other might get depressed. Memory seriously start to disintegrate after your peak at age 25. It’s hard to say at what rate, though, because how does one gauge? Sorry for being cynical, but help me understand what you base your poss diagnosis on. I have similar symptoms and have been diagnosed first with Rheumatoid Arthritis, then Palindromic Rheumatism (a syndrome), then Fybromyalgia (a syndrome). None of above based on any positive test outcomes, plus I don’t believe in the validity of syndromes which are ‘collections of symptoms’, which , to me, means: They ( the doctors) are bamboozled. I live in Taiwan, which is a cesspool of disease, incl regular enterovirus outbreaks. I’ve been assured I don’t have this, without testing. I get colds often and struggle to recover (weeks – months). Medicines are prescribed by the handful, and if antibiotics are included, they are almost without exception Amoxicillin. Cold symptoms ease upon leaving Taiwan, and immediately resumes upon returning. My sore throat sometimes is visible, sometimes not, sometimes dissipates.

    I will take your article to my next drs app and give feedback.


    REPLY: Hi Jeannette. You cannot just say “I don’t believe in the validity of syndromes which are collections of symptoms”, because observing clinical signs and symptoms is how a lot of medical diagnosis works. When there are no lab tests available for a given disease, it can only be recognized on the basis of its particular cluster of symptoms. It is not perfect, but this is the current level of technology. For this reason, it is also very common to get different diagnoses from different doctors. We have not quite gotten to the stage where, as in Star Trek, a doctor can diagnose with a Tricorder. There are no official tests for fibromyalgia or CFS, for example.

    The enterovirus outbreaks in Taiwan are of a particular species: enterovirus 71. EV71 causes very specific symptoms, such sores on the palms of hands and soles of the feet. So this is how your doctor has ruled out EV71 – by the absence of these symptoms. EV71 is not the species of enterovirus that can cause chronic fatigue syndrome / fibromyalgia. There are I believe 68 different species of human enterovirus, many of which are difficult or sometimes impossible to test for.

    There are some great books available on chronic fatigue syndrome / fibromyalgia these days, so do a little reading on the subject, and this will enable you to get the best out of your doctors.

    – Hip

  101. btw, how old are you? I’m 37.

    REPLY: I am a decade older than you. Incidentally, I know one person that caught this virus and subsequently got Palindromic Rheumatism (where there is sudden attacks of arthritis and swelling in a joint, which often randomly disappears, and/or shifts to other joints). I got this myself, but only very lightly, and only for a month or so.

    – Hip

  102. are you a doctor? I am at my wits end with this illness; I am extremely fit and healthy and the symptoms/progressions are identical. 2 rounds of antibiotics and today I feel like a truck ran me over. I have done all the homepathic+chinese (starting back w/ lin quao today/immune system) herbal et al.

    thanks for the posts; can’t believe I am on the web for understanding my body; always an intuitive/know what is up (rare) this one has me and my research baffled.

    REPLY: Hi Laurora. No, I am not a doctor; I am just searching for solutions to this virus. This virus has baffled a lot of people that have caught it. Some of us are trying to get medical researchers to study it; but it is hard to get anyone to take an interest. Have a look at the Treatments page for advice on what treatment has worked well so far.

    – Hip

  103. Could it be Lupus? (Systemic Lupus Erythematosus?) Most of what you’re describing sounds like Autoimmune disorders.

    REPLY: HI Melissa. Thanks very much for your comment. Lupus and CFS do share many symptoms; however, lupus is not thought to be contagious, whereas this virus is. This virus causes mild CFS in many people that catch it, and occasionally more severe CFS symptoms in certain people, such as myself and several others here on this website. And I can confirm that nobody I know with this virus has the classic lupus butterfly rash. But I have to agree that lupus symptoms are surprisingly similar to the symptoms of this virus.

    – Hip

  104. Please help!!!

    It has been now for around four months that I have sore throat, mild fever, general fatigue, nauseas, digestive problems. I tested negative for many STDs: gonorea, chlamidia, HBV, HCV, HIV, syphilis. I had negative HIV DUO test 22 days after last (low) risk exposure, and negative ELISA after 95 days. All my blood and urine works are fine, even some immune analyses…

    Before the onset I had many sexual contacts with risk groups, but I could have got something only through kissing and oral sex. The doctors convinced me that STDs are not my problem, and then a week ago my girlfriend started to feel similar symptoms…

    Do you have any idea what that could be. I also travelled to Asia…

    REPLY: Hi John. Have you been tested for mono (Epstein-Barr virus) infection? – Hip

  105. Yes, I tested negative (IgM) to both EBV and CMV (both IgG-s came out positive).

    Niether my girlfriend nor me have ever had swollen glands. Mild fevers appear around 12 a.m. and last until 9 p.m. They are usually in the range of 37-37.3 grades centigrades (98.6-99.2 farenheits). Any further suggestion?

    P. S. I am afraid of XMRV…

    REPLY: XMRV is nothing really to be afraid of. In fact, most people with chronic fatigue syndrome are pleased to find that they have XMRV – because this at least may explain why they are predisposed to persistent infections with other viruses like enterovirus. And having XMRV also means that, in the future, anti-XMRV drugs may cure them. So CFS patients are generally happy to find that they have XMRV! Funny that, isn’t it?

    The viruses that usually cause CFS are: Epstein-Barr virus, HHV-6, parvovirus B19 and enteroviruses such as coxsackievirus B. So you could get tested for these. But also, have you had bacterial swab tests on your throat, to see if you have a bacterial infection? Bacteria like Chlamydia pneumoniae and Coxiella burnetii (which causes Q fever) are responsible for some cases of chronic fatigue syndrome, and these are curable with antibiotics.

    Regarding the mystery virus described on this site: I don’t know anyone with this virus that has a mild daily fever, so perhaps this is not what you have.

    In general, the thing to do is read a lot more on these subjects, and also try different doctors. Please let us know if you find an answer. It is always interesting to hear this.

    – Hip

  106. Hello,

    Starting several months ago I started to feel under the weather… I had a headache and just wanted to sleep all the time… I began to run a mild, low grade fever and experienced strange symptoms. I have seen a rheumatologist… seen an ENT… been to the GP multiple times and no answer…I continue to experience symptoms of someone ‘with a chronic, viral illness…’ yet, no virus has been found. Some symptoms are as follows…

    History: I am a 23yo white female living in Arkansas. Normal weight.

    After many months of feeling poor… Randomly, my BP has gone through the roof. The cardiologist can find nothing… A month or two ago I went to the dentist… randomly my gums have receeded. However, within the last two months or so I have begun to decline. I run a pretty regular low grade fever (99.9F). I get random, splotches all over my entire body and intense feelings of anxiety. Also, tiny little bruises appear… the size of pencil erasers on my body. I break out in sweats for no reason.. My tongue is also white… the white does not scrape off and it feels like it is burnt. My stomach will often hurt and make noises… sometimes I vomit. I have pain in my right ear and according to the dr, there is blood on my TM. No ear infection. Starting about a week ago I began to display VERY flu-like symptoms… I have a VERY sore throat. My legs are weak and ache. I have taken medicine for symptoms but continue to have a scratchy throat, no voice, swollen lymph nodes and no help. I have already had EBV in the past… I had Tularemia in the past but do NOT have a current infection. I have been tested for HIV and it is negative as are all other communicable illnesses. I also have normal ANA rates and do not have lupus nor RA. They keep telling me I have a virus… but no one seems concerned about this common problem and I can not get anyone to pay attention to my illness.

    My symptoms sound a lot like the ones you describe. What do you think?

    REPLY: It could be the same virus, but many viruses produce similar symptoms.

    You say “My tongue is also white… the white does not scrape off and it feels like it is burnt.” The white coating on my tongue will slowly scrape of by brushing it with a toothbrush. So this sounds different.

    It is common for doctors to dismiss viral infections (unless you go to a CFS doctor). Try some immune boosting herbs, like cat’s claw, echinacea, etc, to see if they help resolve the infection

    – Hip

  107. Hello,

    Since July of last year I have been suffering from strange symptoms and none of my doctors have been able to properly diagnose. It all started one week after I gave unprotected oral sex to a woman I met at a bar. My lips developed a biting itch and fordyce glands rapidly appeared in the corners of my mouth. I also developed faint ulcer like cuts on my top lip that have reoccurred every few weeks in the same spot. A couple of months later my body started to itch all over (symmetrically) especially in my genitals. The itch I experience, however, is not a normal itch; it is a biting itch that sometimes feels like a needle prick. Today, the itching is mostly located in my genital area. I also experienced a VERY brief bout of conjunctivitis.

    In addition to these primary symptoms, I also have regular muscle twitching. My tongue has also appeared sore with a white coating.

    I know these symptoms are not quite the same as the mystery sore throat but I am terrified and feeling hopeless and helpless. I’m worried that the strange virus I have i starting to affect my nervous system as I feel a slight pinching at the back of my head and very mild burning on the left side of my brain.

    PLEASE!!!!! any help or insight would be a tremendous relief. My life is falling apart…

    REPLY: Have you been tested for oral bacterial infection, and have you been tested for common viruses that are transmitted by body fluids, such as Epstein-Barr, HHV-6, parvovirus and cytomegalovirus? If not, this might be your first step.

    – Hip

  108. Hi,

    I have a lot of these symptoms with he most disturbing being the horrid anxiety. Have the sore throat, depression/anxiety, loss of appetite with significant weight loss, social withdrawal. The doctors drew labs and found very high IGG antibodies to epstein barr. They say this is evidence of a past infection. I’m in Colorado Springs. Do you know anyone out here who is dealing with this. Have you had any progress all these years later? Thanks.

    REPLY: Hi Jill

    Thanks for writing. About 95% of the adult population have Epstein-Barr as a past infection; this is normal, and is not the cause of your symptoms.

    But other viruses can cause these general type of symptoms; viruses like enterovirus, HHV-6, parvovirus, cytomegalovirus, so it would be wise to be tested for these. I am currently updating the treatments page with some information on non-addictive drugs and supplements that lower your anxiety levels, so have a look there in a day or so.

    – Hip

  109. Hi, I am a patient of this virus from China. Our group be called as “Fear of AIDS” by doctor.

    According to the syndrome, we are infected by the same virus.

    Now, there is some scientific study for this in China and Germany. Do you know there is someone study this in USA?

    This disease have in China for ten years, now there is millions of people infect this. But most of them don’t know they have ever infect a new virus.

    I want to keep contact with you, could you reply me by the email?

    I am looking for your reply, thanks a lot!

    REPLY: Hi Miand

    Many thanks for your comment, and for contacting us from China! I have sent you an email right now.

    I did not know that scientists in Germany are studying this virus. Very interesting! Do you know where in Germany?

    I do not know anywhere in the USA where this virus is being studied.

    – Hip

  110. hi, what’s up with the smiley on the left?

    is this site a joke?

    REPLY: The smiley on the right, you mean? I don’t know what that is; it appears to be part of this wordpress color scheme.

    No, this site is not a joke. But certainly this is a virus that can make a complete damn mockery of peoples’ lives. – Hip

  111. Kevin,

    You need to see a competent Dermatologist as soon as possible. The symptoms you describe strongly indicate that the sweetheart you pleasured with oral sex was unfortunately, for both of you, infested with scabies, which is a condition caused by a nearly microscopic mite. Scabies is the human version of mange which is often found an animals, e.g., dogs, cats, etc. The pin prick bites are a classic symptom, although most physicians will not recognize it as such and will only make a diagnosis of scabies after they see what is also a classic symptom, itchy bumps between the fingers. Unfortunately, that is often the last symptom to appear, so that by the time the physician makes the proper diagnosis, the patient usually has a full infestation of the body which is several months along.

    Normally scabies are found in the genital areas and on the wrists, hands, elbows, feet, etc. However, occasionally they do get to the face and the scalp, as in your case. The razor like cuts on your lip are also a classic symptom, although they usually appear on those other areas, but even then most physicians do not recogniz the symptom. As you will read in the articles at the below Links, the scabies mite burrows to the second layer of the skin and produces what are called “tracks” which are extremely fine lines that occasionally can be seen, usually in the wrist area, but also in those other areas. The line is the result of the tunnel created by the tiny mite as it burrows to its resting place. The razor like cuts or slits are created by the mite when it burrows too close to the surface of the skin. Your temporary conjunctivitis in your eye was irritation produced when a scabies mite mistakenly traveled into your eye. As that environment is inhospitable for the mite (it can’t survive there for any real length of time; however other mites may subsequently find their way into the eye and the irritation would be repeated by them), it does its best to get out.

    Today there are two primary ways to treat and eliminate scabies. One is the use of a topical agent, usually a cream or ointment which is applied from the top of the head to the bottoms of the feet. The application for adults used to be from the jawline down to the bottoms of the feet. However most pharmaceuticals now say from the top of the head in the instructions on the tube of what is usually 5% Permethrin. That’s because more and more people are getting scabies on the face and head due in part to – you guessed it – the increase in oral sex. However most physicians weren’t taught that in medical school and don’t have the time to read the latest research to update their skills, so they aren’t usually aware of that. In fact many aren’t aware that the other primary method of treatment has been considered the treatment of choice to treat scabies since 2003, as you will read in one of the below Linked articles. Permethrin, which again is at the concentration of 5% to treat scabies (2% is used to treat head lice but is ineffective at that strength for scabies) is essentially a poison which penetrates the skin and kills the mites and their eggs.

    The other method of treatment, which is the one which would be most effective in your case due especially to the infestation of the head and facial area including the lips and eyes, is the oral medication, Stromectol, manufactured by Merck. It is the oral version of Ivermectin, which is the liquid injectable used with animals to treat mange, and it is extremely effective. However, you need to find a competent Dermatologist who is current in his knowledge of the latest treatments.

    Now here are some Links with reading material to familiarize yourself with scabies and the two primary methods of treatment. First, to show you that you are not alone in having this condition – it’s not uncommon for children at daycare centers, where it easily spreads, to acquire it and take it home to their unsuspecting parents and to have it spread to other members of the family before it is realized that they have acquired scabies – read this article dated March 10 and entitled, “Scabies Out Break in Licking County Ohio”:


    Click on the Link in the brief version to read the Full Article.

    Then for a good introductory article about scabies, read this one by Dr. Heather Brannon, M.D., dated 12/7/09 and entitled, “Scabies Itchy Skin Rash”. Also click on the Links in the article to view the pictures of the rash. When the picture comes up, click on it to see the enlarged version:


    Next, read this article published in the New England Journal of Medicine on July 6, 1995 entitled, “The Treatment of Scabies with Ivermectin”:


    Then read this one, which you may want to print out and give to your physician or Dermatologist if he/she isn’t familiar with the use of Stromectol, the oral version of Ivermectin, as the treatment of choice to treat scabies. The article emanated from the 61st Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Dermatology which was held in San Francisco, California in June of 2003, and is entitled, “Ivermectin: treatment of choice for scabies and maybe lice, too” and subtitled: “As these parasites become resistant to topical treatment, more physicians are choosing ivermectin”. Note that in the first sentence in the parentheses after the first word, “Ivermectin”, the brand name of the oral (pill form) version of Ivermectin is identified as “Stromectol”, which again, is manufactured and marketed by the pharmaceutical company, Merck:


    Then when you get some time you may want to read about the experience of others in this thread, entitled, “Scabies in and around eyes and on the face”, at topix.com. However, I do not recommend that you try any of those methods. In fact, the only one on that thread to pay any heed to is “Sam”. Go to a competent Dermatologist who hopefully will be familiar with the use of Stromectol as the treatment of choice, especially with infestation which includes the head and facial area:


    You might want to explore the website as well. However, don’t waver from seeking out a good Dermatologist. Just one last thing. From your description of the condition inside your mouth, it sounds as though the sweetheart also gave you a yeast/Candida infection. A good Derm. can determine if you do have Candida or Candidiasis, and provide you with an effective treatment regimen, which would include diet modification (eliminate sugars and simple carbohydrates, etc.) as well as medication and/or dietary supplements. Google Kolorex and check it out at swansonvitamins.com – just put Kolorex into their Search box near the top of their home page.

    REPLY: Let’s hope Kevin comes back to read this excellent diagnostic advice. He did not leave his email.

    – Hip

  112. Why haven’t you posted my reply to Kevin which I submitted over two hours ago?

    REPLY: Try putting fewer links in your posts, and they won’t tend to be diverted into the spam folder (which I only check every few days).

    Your comment has now been released from spam folder purgatory – see just above. – Hip

  113. I was a healthy female and started a chronic sore throat in October 2007. I suffered then several flu’s and the last one (January 2008) was extremely severe and lasted 14 days.

    Januaray after the sore throat finished, I then broke out in blister type abscesses all over the body and the reoccurred over a period of 8 month.

    January 2010 severe headaches and sore throat started to bother me (I do not suffer ever of headaches) and since then I had a very bad bronchitis and had to take antibiotics .

    I am back to the headache and sore throat. I do not take any medication except levothyrox as I have ½ of thyroid since the 80th and treat myself with homeopathic and alternative products.

  114. In my above reply to Kevin about the parasitic skin condition, scabies, two of the Links aren’t working properly.

    The second Link down, which is for the article entitled, “Scabies Itchy Skin Rash”, authored by Dr. Heather Brannon, M.D. can be accessed this way. After hitting the Link and letting the “about.com” page come up, go to their SEARCH box in the upper right hand corner of the page, and type in the following – scabies Heather Brannon – Then when the page comes up, under the heading, “In Dermatology: scabies Heather Brannon”, click on the first Linked article.

    The last Link in my above Post has an error. The number 1 which appears before the last letter/number group, VFUA3A should be the capital letter, I. You can try the below Link, or on the page that does come up with the Link in the above Post, just scroll down to the title, “Scabies in and around eyes and on the face” almost half-way down the page.

    This should be the correct Link:


  115. Hi Beach Man and Hip,

    Thank you for your help and insights into my condition. I have been suffering from my symptoms for over 8 months now and, as I mentioned, the quality of my life has diminished greatly. I am TRULY grateful to have people out there who are not dismissive and are willing to offer any advice and support. I feel so alone with my problems so it means the world to have any form of support. Again, Thanks a million.

    As for your post, I thoroughly read the article links you posted have been to see two dermatologists. Neither of the dermatologists even mention the possibility of scabies as a cause for my symptoms. I saw one very competent dermatologist last week who ordered a full blood work up: Metabolic rate, CRC (I think), Lymes disease, hepatitis, and several other tests. Everything came back normal…

    I will absolutely follow up with her and discuss the possibility of scabies.

    The most disturbing problems I have, however, are more related to my nerve symptoms. Occasionally I will have a biting sensation immediately followed by a muscle twitch or sometimes a spasm that is completely unprovoked. I also mentioned the pinching at the back of my head and very mild brain inflammation on the left side only.

    What is most most disturbing is that my current girlfriend has has serious muscle pain. Her initial diagnoses was Throacic outlet syndrome, but was later changed to Parsonage Tuner Syndrome b/c there were no typical causes associatied with Thoracic Outlet. Her Neurologist said that her pain was most likely caused by a “virus” and that she should stick to regimen of physical therapy and pain killers. I should mention that she has also shown strange cuts around her mouth and frequent acne around her lips. We have both have regular symptoms of urinary tract infections.

    The muscle inflammation and nerve issues are the most serious of the symptoms that I and my girlfriend have experienced (she has really serious shoulder pain). Is it possible that scabies, if left untreated can cause such problems? Within the past few week I have also started to develop a dull sometimes burning pain in both my shoulders that feels like a muscle pull.

    The dermatologist who I saw and who I consider very competent said that I should follow up with a neurologist b/c itching can also be related to nerves in the body.

    If this were all due to an untreated scabies problem I would be doing cartwheels and celebrating like crazy. I am scared senseless that I have contracted some bizarre virus that causes nerve inflammation. I am on TONS of antidepressants and have been feeling mildly suicidal over this whole ordeal.

    I hope and pray you are right that my problems are scabies related. Again thank you for your support. I really cannot express how much it means to me.



    REPLY: Thanks for the update Kevin. Let’s hope BeachMan will come back and give his interesting views on this. A couple of small points that may be of interest: Magnesium supplementation can help with muscles twitches (dose = 500 mg a day). Regarding the depression: be careful if you are taking SSRI type anti-depressants, as these drugs can actually create powerful suicidal thoughts in people sometimes (and this side-effect is well-known in the medical profession). SSRI drugs certainly did this with me. I had to stop them immediately, such was the intensity of the suicidal ideation these drugs created. SSRIs are therefore very dangerous, if you are not aware of this possible very bad reaction they can create. But note that this bad reaction is relatively rare.

    As an alternative, the anti-depressant vitamins: NADH (10 mg), co-enzyme Q10 (200 mg), and bulk inositol powder (10 grams) can be quite effective in combination, with no side-effects at all.

    – Hip

  116. Hello,

    Before I get into the 70 chapter book that is my medical problems I want to mention that I am a juvenile diabetic and have been for 16 years with good blood sugar control, up until the last year.

    I have had the following symptoms since March of ’09 when I got a bad strep throat infection with scarlet fever:

    Sore Throat

    Swollen Neck, Collar Bone and Mouth Glands

    Constant Congestion and productive cough (meaning mucus comes up with the cough usually yellow or green)

    Giant Papillary Conjunctivitis (was told this is from my contact lenses?)

    Fever that comes and goes

    Night Sweats

    Frequent painful and painless canker sores in groups all over mouth and on/under tongue


    Feeling like something is wrong or Malaise.

    Severe Clinical Depression

    Anxiety, panic attacks (some requiring hospitalization)

    Bloody Nose (found a nasal and throat polyp that were removed and cleared of cancer)

    Ear ache and drainage as well as vertigo

    Foot Lesions that have gotten better after hospitalization and massive IV antibiotics. (they thought I had a heart valve infection at the time, endocarditis, disproved by the TEE)

    Foot lesions are still there but smaller and no longer itch

    Muscle aches

    Painless swollen masses in the corners of my mouth, that look like sores but do not cause any problems other than there initial breakout, have been there since the strep throat infection.

    Conjunctivas every morning

    Trouble sleeping

    Testicular Pain with inflamed blood vessels on the urethra.

    Lower back pain

    Frequent Bowel movements with weekly diarrhea

    dear god that is a lot huh? No wonder I have depression? I should also mention that they have tested me for the following all of which have come back negative: all known STDS(including HPV, HIV, AIDS), Lupus, Celiac Disease, Fungal Infections of the Blood, Mono, Strep, Anemia, Sickle Cell.

    My white blood cell count is normal, as well as T-cell count…the only thing my blood tests showed were that there are large amounts of anti-bodies in my blood.

    I seriously have spent a year seeing different doctors and specialists and spent vast amounts of money and still do not have an answer, it is reassuring however to know that someone else is experiencing this but also scary. I am sorry you also have to deal with this, because I know how draining it really is for you mentally as well as physically.

    REPLY: Hi Michael. That is certainly a War and Peace of health ailments. Have you looked into any herbal supplements? Herbal immune boosters might be a start. Do you think the bacterium of scarlet fever, Streptococcus pyogenes, is still not full under control in your body, and contributing or causing these symptoms? You could also try say 200 mg daily of berberine (you can but this as Yellow Gold). Berberine is effective against Streptococcus pyogenes, and in particular, berberine stops strep sticking to your membranes, like conjunctiva, etc. The complementary medicine route is one of dedicated experimentation, and trial and error.

    – Hip

  117. I am going through this virus presently – have been sick approx 6 weeks and seem to be going one step forward and two steps backwards. Have had allsorts of blood tests and it seems Coxsackie B5 and B6 are present. Doesnt help that I had EBV about 7 years ago. Having terrible anxiety and panic attacks that are making me feel like I am going insane. I am going to give the anti-hystamine approach a try as I dont fancy the prescription I was given for an anti-depressant.

    REPLY: Hi Vicki. Sorry to hear that you have caught this (or a similar) virus. Regarding anti-depressants: I have just today updated the Treatments Page with some new info on effective natural mood-boosters / anti-depressants, which you might want to try. They are not the ultimate cure we are looking for, but they can help you get through the bad days with these very unpleasant mental symptoms.

    – Hip

  118. Thanks Hip, I shall take a look at the updated treatment page shortly. I found some anti-hystamines in my med chest last night (Desloratadine) and taking one – found it did relax me. After finding your site yesterday I pretty much had/have the symptoms you mentioned. I seem to be over the really “ill” type feelings but have def noticed new symptoms now – such as the brain fog, mixing up of words, mood swings, depression, withdrawal from social events etc. My left leg is so numb at times I dont feel like it belongs to me. I can have a panic attack just walking into a supermarket!! I am clumsy, have bad balance and have to keep my eyes open whilst washing my hair in the shower or I want to fall over!! My doc diagnosed me pretty quickly (I am in South Africa) and she says theres pretty much nothing you can do with the coxsackie ‘cept look after yourself i.e. eat properly, sleep well and take supplements. She prescribed an anti-depressant but I havent taken one as yet. A chemist friend of ours is looking into the benefits of Fulvic Acid on the immune system, so I shall keep you updated on any progress on this. Regards, Vicki

    REPLY: Thanks Vicki, its always good to get suggestions (like fulvic acid) and feedback.

    – Hip

  119. Dear HIP.

    I read your article and some of the comments. It is encouraging to see how successful you are in researching the illness and the comfort you gave to many readers. I’ve learnt a great deal from your findings.

    I support your claim that the causes for the symptoms are viruses and the logic that made you conclude so. I think that you are doing the right thing investigating causes and remedies on the net. I also agree with your method of defining the illness by its symptoms until the day that scientists will isolate and name the virus.

    There are many people that were infected by these viruses but lucky to have no symptoms. There are also many others who have mild symptoms and their conclusion is that they have “a lingering nasty cold that wont shift”. Like you, I suspect that some of us have worse symptoms because of our weak immune system.

    25 years ago some friends of mine complained about similar symptoms, they had some relief when it became a recognized illness named ME. I spent many hours socializing with those friends but I was lucky not to be infected myself. After about 5 years I started to have frequent “nasty colds” that turned into chronic infections and fatigue. Telling by the symptoms I could trace some of the infections back to the persons who passed it on to me. I also shared some of the infections with my friend that I live with, he was lucky to have milder symptoms that decay within months. This leads me to agree that it’s a viral infection. During 10 years it turned from one bad day in a week to 2 bad days and another 5 days to recover. It became too difficult to take, so I decided to stop working and moved from London to warmer climate in south France. Now I get infected sometimes by the visiting friends from England.

    When the multi-infections started 20 years ago I identified the assault on my immune system caused by the malaria preventative drugs I took on my trip to Brazil. I don’t have any proof for this claim, but I’m less inclined to think that my immune system was damaged by a virus. I’m sure that my weak immune system is overwhelmed by the infections, that go unnoticed by people with good immune system, hence the fatigue and the acute symptoms. In general I feel that on and off the infections consume half of my life by mentally recovering and healing from the pains.

    I’ve tried some remedies and found that in most of them the effect is too small to tell. Significant effect is from selective diet but it takes years to find out what is good for you. The other remedy which is most effective is physical activities, I’ve noticed that other readers recommend that. My main activity is walking. During periods of intense activity the symptoms move to the background, and on periods of less physical activity the symptoms creep back. I’m afraid that my suggestion for remedy is suitable to only small proportion of people with chronic fatigue.

    I hope that you will carry on finding good remedies for yourself, and maybe one day science will find a cure.


    REPLY: Many thanks for writing, Carol. – Hip

  120. With all those viruses out there, it’s a wonder that reading this hasn’t made me feel even more paranoid!

    I have some of the symptoms mentioned, particularly the stuff/congested nose, and a sore throat when I don’t rest. I had a really bad bout of depression last year, but that’s mostly gone now. I do feel anxious quite a bit, and feel my body tense and on-edge a lot of the time; even when I’m doing something innocuous like watching a comedy show on TV. I definitely don’t have anhedonia; I just don’t have the energy to have all the fun that I want! And my libido isn’t the problem: it’s the difficulty meeting potential partners when I’m stuck in bed. By myself! I have a loss of drive to do unpleasant things, but still really enjoy having fun. Insomnia is a problem for me. I haven’t had any real pain aside from headaches, and no dental issues or skin problems. People say CFS causes immune problems, but to be honest I haven’t had a discernible cold or flu in the 2 years I’ve had it, which is _very_ unusual for me. Mind you, I’ve felt like I had a cold that entire time so maybe I just don’t notice.

    Is it viral? Possibly, but there are no effective cures for viruses other than rest. I think all the supplements people talk about are placebos. Effective anti-viral medications have bad side effects, are expensive, and are only marginally effective. So that doesn’t leave us with many options other than to rest. I do feel better after I rest consistently. I just don’t want to, because I want to have a life that I enjoy, and staying in bed all the time doesn’t qualify.

    For the time being, I’m going with an alternative theory that it’s actually a stress response in the body causing a permanent fight-or-flight response that leads to exhaustion. I had considerable emotional stress and anxiety before becoming ill, which is consistent with this theory. There are ways to treat stress, and that gives me more hope than the virus theory… at least for the time being until someone discovers an effective anti-viral treatment. You’re welcome to follow my progress on my blog at http://cfs-survivors.org/blog .



    REPLY: Many thanks for dropping by, Graham. It looks like that your symptoms are not too bad (lucky you): mainly some fatigue and some generalized anxiety (edginess).

    There is mileage in the idea that “a stress response in the body causing a permanent fight-or-flight response that leads to exhaustion”. So thinking in terms of reducing this stress is a good way to go.

    If there is a bit of a viral infection going on, then it is known that the stress response actually makes it harder for the immune system to clear a virus. But is does not have to a virus that causes CFS symptoms; sometimes chemical exposure to pesticides can kick off CFS. Or sometimes toxins in your own home can be the culprit for general malaise (toxic mold, for example).

    However it is worth knowing that some viruses can be quite easy dealt with, by simple means. For example, I know people that have had some very bad cases of CFS, with horrendous anxiety, depression and anhedonia, caused by Epstein-Barr virus (the familiar glandular fever / mononucleosis virus). Yet they brought this virus completely under control simply switching to an alkalizing diet (see Google for details of this diet).

    – Hip

  121. red wine and grape seed extract ,diatomaceous earth,7 day total body detox,albendazole,ivermectin,mebendazole,flagyl,grapefruit seed extract,olive leaf extract,tumeric,black wallnut husk,artesimin,coq10,vitamin b,and many other things seem to help including a zapper

  122. You just described me, in detail. I could not have said it better. But it’s too much for me to comprehend all at once. I’ll come back to it and finish it. Thanks

  123. I had chronic sore throats before developing Morgellons, however, I discovered my body was extremely acidic, I mean so acidic I failed to register on a PH strip, or rather, made it so yellow I was acidic as you can get.

    I started on Apple Cide Vinegar and many other things, eventually my sore throats stopped, rosacea, hair loss, all kinds of things were corrected, that wasn’t my entire fix, but the beginning. My health is good now.

    Don’t over look the every day common things like Potassium (only get through Orange Juice never supplement), Magnesium, Amino Acids, in other words, fix your terrain, don’t target germs, fix your terrain and hopefully the rest will take care of itself

  124. One more thing, I’m not suprised at all by the sudden heart attacks, this (or Morgellons, whatever you want to call it) sucks the minerals out of your body. The more acidic you are the more magnesium/potassium/calcium your body will use to flush out that acid, you body must buffer the acid and this is how it does it.

    People are having heart attacks from nothing more than a sheer lack of magnesium every day, it’s quite common. But never take Magnesium if you have kidney problems, always check with your doctor.

    I think much of what people are experiencing are terrain issues, the terrain is not the immune system, the terrain is enough to keep one perfectly healthy, the immune system is only there in case the terrain fails.

    You can take all the oregano oil, GSE or whatever and you are never going to get better unless you fix your terrain.

    I’m not a doctor but this post was the beginning if my journey to healing, today I am recovered from Morgellons which in many ways overlaps here.


    REPLY: Thanks for your comment. I think the symptom overlaps of this virus to Morgellons may rest on similar inflammatory processes going on in both diseases. Inflammation is the immune system’s response to an infectious pathogen. Sometimes the inflammatory response is over-zealous, and so causes many adverse symptoms. Cerebral inflammation may cause psychological changes, for example.

    By taking anti-inflammatories, you tone down the inflammatory response, and make the symptoms more bearable.

    – Hip

  125. I have been sick for over a year with a virus and I have been to several doctors and they can’t seem to find out what is wrong with me. I have had a sore throat, runny nose, severe sweating, chills, extreme pain in my chest, pain on my left side and in my left arm, numbness in both hands, pain in my legs and knees, extreme fatigue, weakness and lightheadness, a cough, depression, suicidal thoughts, trouble focusing, trouble using the right words and the list goes on. It finally came upon your website and I wonder if I have the same virus that you have been talking about. What do you think?

    REPLY: HI Brenda. It may well be the same virus. Try the anti-inflammatory herbs curcumin and propolis, with the exact dosages as described on the treatments page, and this may give considerable relief from the symptoms of the infection. Please let us know if it works or not.

    – Hip

  126. My husband was hospitilized for a week in an icu from the coxsackie B1-B4 viruses they came back high for all of them. He still has this overwhelming anxiety fatigue. He’ll fall asleep at nothing and has severe depression sore throat etc… he suffered a severe MI from this virus. Does it ever leave your system and how many years does it take to feel better?

    REPLY: Sorry to hear about the suffering your husband has gone through with the myocardial infarction, plus anxiety, depression and fatigue problems. It sounds as if he has the same virus, judging by these VERY typical symptoms (but obviously I cannot know for sure).

    Do you know when your husband first caught the virus (it usually starts with the sore throat)? And how soon after that did he get the myocardial infarction?

    There are some effective palliative treatments for the anxiety, depression and fatigue problems on the treatments page. These may help in the short-term (and in the long term, if necessary). I have been using them for years. Anti-inflammatory herbs do seem to be very helpful (but check with the doctor before using these, in case they impact the heart; it may be prudent to wait several months before taking anti-inflammatory herbs, especially herbs that are COX-2 inhibitors).

    Most people seem to eventually keep the virus under control in their system, and find that the long term effects are manageable; but about 1 in 10 people seem to be get more severely affected, and may develop chronic fatigue syndrome. Hopefully your husband will make a full recovery.

    – Hip

  127. http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Autoimmune-Disorders-/PLS-provide-some-feedback/show/1225419 I have been studying western medical websites for over a year and this is world wide phenomenon, this link is just one example. I believe it is part of a world depopulation agenda. Strange how you can be close to death and doctors will tell you that nothing is wrong with you. Bret Micheals had an emergency appendectemy before his bleeding of the brain. Is it a strange new designer nematode? Is it the fourth horseman?

    REPLY: Thanks for your comment Chris. There is no real need for Sci Fi stories to explain this, imaginative though it may be; nature has always created nasty new infectious diseases throughout human history, and this is just one of them. – Hip

  128. I’ve been having strange and often debilitating symptoms for years now..seem to be getting worse now, which is how I found this blog. I have been researching for weeks. Came upon something called Sjogren’s Syndrome and I seem to fit those symptoms to a T as well as the ones listed here, so I just wanted to throw this name out there in case others are wondering what’s wrong with them and can’t figure it out. I’m pretty positive I’ve finally figured out what’s going on with me, def making a rheumatologist appt TOMORROW.

    Good luck everyone..nothing worse than being chronically sick. But with education and taking responsibility for ourselves we have the best chance of living a quality life.

  129. hi,

    has anyone ever tried to be tested to HTLV (not only antibodies), MMTV/HMTV, or reactivating HERVs?

    has anyone ever tried to take antiretroviral drugs?


  130. Hi Hip,

    I believe I have a lot of the same systems you’re experience with your illness. I believe I have the same virus. I am worried. I was a healthy 30 yr old male before I got this. Now, I have chronic running noses, off and on sore throats, blotchy red and dry skin, and premature aging. I also have very visible veins everywhere. Veins that I’ve never seen before show up on the palms of my hands and feet. I’m concerned that I’ll die of old age in like 10 years. I noticed that it’s very contagious too. I notice people around me get constant coughs and sneezes. Is this some new super virus that doesn’t go away and cause chronic problems with our bodies. Should I contact the CDC? If they don’t respond, should I go to their office and spread to the people there? I notice it seems to be extremely contagious. You mentioned it might be a entrovirus and you recommend Oxymatrine. Have you tried it and does it work for you?


  131. It’s not HLTV virus since it is contagious. My parents who live with me are getting it.. chronic rhinitis and sneezes. Highly contagious! I thought at first it was mold or dust in the home but I notice people sneezing around me too everywhere I go.

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